How to shoot Part 1, 2

[CJKOLCUN]

Thanks for the info.

[ROUTEMICHIGAN]

Learning a lot here. New to this forum, but not to shooting. One practical reason for a more squared stance- in my experience- is to have your plates facing forward towards the threat as much as possible. Being bladed exposes the weak spot of your plate carrier (even with the newer ballistic inserts). As mentioned by others- my fighting stance is with left foot slightly forward; little wider than shoulder width; weight balls of feet (like the trooper in the foreground pic below). I know most here do not have to deal with that sort of thing and it doesn't work for everyone--but it's worked for me.

Attachment 10353

[Preliator]

Can we give this thread a bump?

Also, IIRC, there was a fairly large following of using a squared up stance with long guns as well as pistols, I'm somewhat curious as to why this changed, I remember being told that I needed to square up to the target, and move the stock inwards into the chest area.

Now I see that a somewhat bladed stance is OK, I'm kind of wondering why it was ever taught that a squared up stance is better? It's obvious that a bladed stance is better, it allows you to absorb and resist recoil, and allows for a more natural shouldering of the weapon. Also, I remember the reason I resisted moving my VFG forward for so long was due to the pressing need to consistently square to the target. (Now I still keep a VFG on my gun for use as a shooting rest, and as a grip for when the rail heats up too much, but in both of these capacities, it is placed far more forward) Finally, now that the bladed stance is accepted I can grip the gun comfortably, and my performance increases with this new found shootability.

To me the turning point of squared to bladed occurred when many people began to try a 3-gun grip on their AR, and consequently had to change their body position to accommodate it. In doing so, it seems they were able to grip the gun more easily, drive it better, reduce recoil, and adopt a more useful stance.

Which goes back to the question, since blading obviously has huge benefits in a rifle shooting position, why was the squared up stance ever taught? Was there a reason, or was it simply the result of a fad?

Because alot of LE and Military wear body armor with hard plates, the idea is present your most armored parts to the badguy. I practice like this because when I am working I am wearing hard plates and am trying to protect vital organs, I give up a small amount of recoil control (very small amount) to gain added protection form my armor.

[Preliator]

You look like some of my MARSOC/ 1st Force buddies - those pictures bring back some good memories of training while underway.

[VMI-MO]

"Would you rather rely on your enemies ability to aim at your plate, or your ability to shoot him dead" ~Kyle Lamb

Quote as is written in my note book from a class with him.

Another interesting "present your plates to the enemy" thing to ponder. In reality, how often are you really going to be square to a threat? Also how often is the threat that shoots you squared to your front?


PJ

[Preliator]

true, but I am sure that Mr Lamb knows that sometimes the badguy gets the first shot. Maybe not all the time in Delta force land, but in LE, SWAT and the rest of .mil land folks dont always get the first chance at a shot. you have to weigh out everything you do, risk vs gain. Every one is going to have a different threshold for where the risk outweighs the gain and vise versa.

I imagine that most folks like Lamb, Vickers and Hackathorn would be the first to tell you that they put their pants on in the same manner as every one else, and I will be the first to tell you that what works for Delta/SEAL types is not always the best way for every one else.

[2theXtreme]

You guys do realize this thread is over 2 years old? Some of the stuff in here may be out of date...


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

[Preliator]

nevermind. sometimes its best to just let it go.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

I think this is a helpful conversation to have, and my shooting style has changed even more.

As I've adopted a VFG-less grip on all my longguns, and taken to shortening the stock a tad, I've found that my recoil management goes up since I make my torso a more rigid abutment for the gun to recoil against, BUT, my stance also becomes more squared.

Stance is fluid, and situationally dependent, and should take into account variables such as the weapon you're firing, the target size/distance, the need for cover/concealment, time pressure, etc. It's just another variable in the equation to balance speed vs. accuracy, and in some cases, risk.

[Jim D]

true, but I am sure that Mr Lamb knows that sometimes the badguy gets the first shot. Maybe not all the time in Delta force land, but in LE, SWAT and the rest of .mil land folks dont always get the first chance at a shot. you have to weigh out everything you do, risk vs gain. Every one is going to have a different threshold for where the risk outweighs the gain and vise versa.

I imagine that most folks like Lamb, Vickers and Hackathorn would be the first to tell you that they put their pants on in the same manner as every one else, and I will be the first to tell you that what works for Delta/SEAL types is not always the best way for every one else.

Sure, they go into a fight knowing they are going to dominate the shit out of anyone they come up against.

LE seems to be much more worried they might get shot. There tends not the be that same aggressiveness that you see in units like the above mentioned.

For people without the mindset, and willingness to burn everyone down... it makes perfect sense to worry about getting shot. I've seen plenty of SWAT cops shoot... and they should be worried, plenty of them aren't anything special with a gun. If you are worried that you might not get the first shot off, you need to improve your skills or rethink your tactics.

Lamb's quote nailed it. You need to worry about how to be as lethal as possible... not how to handicap yourself around an assumption on the other guys position and marksmanship.