Wow, the Underwood 90 gr Xtreme Defender is something else....

[TraumaPlateDuctTape]

Military Arms Channel just ran some barrier and gel tests with 4 different 9mm defense loads. The most impressive contender by far was the Underwood. No matter what barrier they fed it, it was consistently penetrating to roughly 19 inches with 10"-long stretch cavities measuring 2.5-3" in diameter. The +P+ ammo also penetrated 2a body armor and cleared a 16" gel block... twice. I would go watch the MAC vid if you don't believe me, that little 90-grainer really does some serious and consistent damage. The other rounds, which many consider defensive handgun staples, were inconsistent and often over-penetrated or failed to expand (sometimes both). Anyone use it or have thoughts? Also don't confuse this with the Xtreme Penetrator, I cannot speak for that round's performance. From what I've heard it is not as impressive, at least for stretch cavities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0piGeTVMZWs

[silvabaQ]

Thanks for the heads up

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Yeah, who would have guessed essentially a FMJ would have done that...? You mean a hard edged wadcutter-ish non-expanding bullet will penetrate? When did that happen??

In the video he demonstrates his lack of wound ballistics understanding. Wound ballistics from this load would be no different than what you would get from any other plain vanilla flat point pistol round, with a bit larger temp cavity, but not big enough to be making any difference.

Untrained people look at gelatine and get all impressed by what they see, because they have no idea how to read what they are looking at.



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[ggammell]

No thank you. There's just no way you're going to know where that round is going to end up. I watched that video last night and was astounded. Anything that out penetrates a Hornaday is way outside practical performance envelope. And the Hornady's are at the edge of that envelope as it is.

[Molon]

I saw no evidence of BB calibration and the gel blocks were not at the correct temperature.

[TraumaPlateDuctTape]

No thank you. There's just no way you're going to know where that round is going to end up. I watched that video last night and was astounded. Anything that out penetrates a Hornaday is way outside practical performance envelope. And the Hornady's are at the edge of that envelope as it is.

So it doesn't bother you that other rounds were literally clearing gel blocks while the Underwood performed consistently, and the only thing that made it truly overpenetrate was body armor, in which case overpenetration is really a moot point?

[TraumaPlateDuctTape]

Yeah, who would have guessed essentially a FMJ would have done that...? You mean a hard edged wadcutter-ish non-expanding bullet will penetrate? When did that happen??

In the video he demonstrates his lack of wound ballistics understanding. Wound ballistics from this load would be no different than what you would get from any other plain vanilla flat point pistol round, with a bit larger temp cavity, but not big enough to be making any difference.

Untrained people look at gelatine and get all impressed by what they see, because they have no idea how to read what they are looking at.



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The other rounds didn't seem to be leaps and bounds ahead of the Underwood in terms of their cavities. I would have expected expanding bullets to leave a lot more damage in their wake. Plus, if you noticed, for most of the barrier tests the other rounds basically just turned into ball rounds once something plugged up their nose.

[ggammell]

So it doesn't bother you that other rounds were literally clearing gel blocks while the Underwood performed consistently, and the only thing that made it truly overpenetrate was body armor, in which case overpenetration is really a moot point?

It consistently over penetrated out of spec gel. I dont remember seeing the HST over penetrating anything.

The round used on the body armour was +p+ while the one for the barrier tests was just +p.

There are reasons why HST is one of the most sought after defensive rounds. It works. On gel and people as needed. He never cut up the gel to see what the real wound cavities looked like and as someone referenced earlier, it's only one factor in the equation.

What ever allotment of Lehigh was set aside for me you can have. I won't be needing it. (Sarcasm off)

[MegademiC]

Stretch cavities for pistol rounds are pretty much useless. You want an expanding round to increase the perm cavity and tear things. Fmjs are smooth and allow tissue to stretch around it leading to a smaller than caliber perm cavity. Hst and gold dot has demonstrated in the real world and controlled testing, to expand very reliably even through clothing and barriers while penetrating to desired depths.

[allthelumens]

MAC has done a video previous to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClJcJ8LQFbQ he calibrates the gel and the rounds show consistent penetration of about 17 inches. He also shoots a dead pig in this one. Hopefully this helps back up the most recent video. I don't have a ton of experience but I would say this stuff is pretty impressive IMHO