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Thread: Head-Shots with Red-Dots

  1. #1
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    Head-Shots with Red-Dots

    Head-Shots with Red-Dots








    For this ballistic exercise, I did a brief comparison of the level of accuracy that was attainable when aiming with four different “red-dot” sights. The following four optics were tested:


     Aimpoint CompML2 with a 4 MOA dot

     Aimpoint T1 with an advertised 4 MOA dot

     Aimpoint CompM4S with a 2 MOA dot

     EoTech 551 with the 65 MOA ring/1 MOA dot





    All shooting for this ballistic exercise was conducted from the bench at a distance of 50 yards using my Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15 and match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition. The head-targets used for this exercise were reduced in scale to simulate distances beyond 50 yards.

    The testing was conducted at 50 yards in order to mitigate the variable of wind-drift that would have been significant if testing had been conducted at actual distances and to remove the vertical variation of the points of impact that would have occurred due to bullet drop at actual distances. The objective here was to determine what the limitation on accuracy was, due to aiming with the various red-dot sights, not how well I could dope the wind and distance. Each optic was zeroed for POA=POI at 50 yards prior to testing using 10-shot groups. All aiming was conducted with the entire dot of each optic placed over the head-target. (No aiming was done using just the bottom or top of the dot or holding the entire dot above or below the head-target.)


    The targets used for this exercise are copies of the head portion of the Front Sight Official Training and Qualification Target. The Front Sight target is an “accurate representation of human dimensions taken from medical cadaver studies and 3000 x-ray studies.”

    Only the head portion of the target was used so that no visual cues could be obtained from the larger body portion of the target. The full-sized head-target is approximately 6” wide by 9” high. The targets were sequentially reduced in scale to simulate the full-sized head targets from 75 yards to 600 yards (at 50 yards), in 25 yard increments. (Again, all shooting was actually conducted at 50 yards.)




















    The simple test procedure for this exercise was as follows: one shot and one shot only was fired at the head-targets in increasing simulated distance (smaller and smaller targets.) Testing for each optic ended when I missed a target on the first shot. The entire exercise was conducted twice, with the same results each time.

    To establish a control base-line of accuracy, I tested a NightForce NXS 1-4X with the NP-1 reticle prior to testing the red-dot sights. Using the NightForce scope (set at 4X magnification) I was able to make first-round hits on the simulated 600 yard head-target (the farthest simulated distance that I used for this exercise.)














    Aimpoint CompML2






    Using the Aimpoint CompML2 with the 4 MOA dot I was able to obtain first round hits on the simulated 225 yard head-target.








    Aimpoint T1






    Using the Aimpoint T1 with the advertised 4 MOA dot I was able to obtain first round hits on the simulated 250 yard head-target.









    Aimpoint CompM4S






    Using the Aimpoint CompM4S with the 2 MOA dot I was able to obtain first round hits on the simulated 400 yard head-target.









    EoTech 551






    Using the EoTech 551 with the 65 MOA ring/1 MOA dot reticle (and aiming with the 1 MOA dot) I was able to obtain first round hits on the simulated 375 yard head-target.















    ….
    Last edited by Molon; 11-12-15 at 21:40.
    All that is necessary for trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.

  2. #2
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    That is exactly in line with my personal experience. I have no prob. getting hits out to 500yds. w/Aimpoint M4S/2MOA dot.

    Not only me, but in a HSP class myself and plenty of others were hitting out to 500yds. w/RDS's. This was in mountainous terrain and we were shooting uphill and slightly downhill at times. It was NOT a perfectly groomed range so that all other variables were lessened.

    As a caveat I will say I have excellent eyesight, but no way everyone in the class was above average in eyesight.

    I feel RDS's are capable of going much further out than most think.

    As a development along that line of thinking, I highly suggest people learn the limits of how far they can take their RDS out. It is further than most think or common wisdom, at this point, suggests.

    The distances people are willing take their RDS out to should be an idea whose time to be reevaluated has come.

  3. #3
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    I'm going to have to do something like this with my irons seeing that's all I have.

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    Interesting
    Last edited by MistWolf; 11-08-15 at 15:19.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Interesting
    Was going to reply to your ? as to why the diff. b/w Aimpoints.

    My personal opinion, with no scientific backup, is that the larger housing, glass size, etc. all contribute to the M4S allowing for a more precise shot to be taken. Once again, that is simply a guess.

    I have T-2's but use the M4S's.
    Last edited by 6933; 11-08-15 at 15:26. Reason: spellin'

  6. #6
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    My original question was based on my poor reading skills. Closer examination of the details gave me my answer. I edited my post to save myself further embarrassment
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6933 View Post
    Was going to reply to your ? as to why the diff. b/w Aimpoints.

    My personal opinion, with no scientific backup, is that the larger housing, glass size, etc. all contribute to the M4S allowing for a more precise shot to be taken. Once again, that is simply a guess.

    I have T-2's but use the M4S's.
    I thinking the 2MOA vs 4MOA dot has more to do with it, but maybe I'm wrong.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    I thinking the 2MOA vs 4MOA dot has more to do with it, but maybe I'm wrong.
    DUH to me. Forgot to mention that. Yeah, that def. factors in.

  9. #9
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    Very Nice !!

  10. #10
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    The appleseed shoots are a good way to test yourself with irons and simulated distance targets.

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