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Thread: Head-Shots with Red-Dots

  1. #11
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    Intuitively, a head is about an 8 inch circle. A 4 MOA dot is roughly 8 inches at 200 yards. So, beyond 200 yards the aiming point is bigger than the target. If using POA=POI, the shooter cannot determine where the dot is on the target because the dot obscures the target.

    That rationale is supported by the 2 MOA dot reaching to 400 yards where a 2 MOA dot becomes about 8 inches.

    The EOTech is odd. It should theoretically go to 800 yards with a 1 MOA dot. I am wondering if it becomes a physical limitation of eye balls, the glass, light transmission, etc. rather than a sight and target issue.

    Could it be that the dot sizes are not true to their names, i.e., the true dot size is 3.2 MOA but the manufacturer rounds it to 4 MOA.

    Query: If one uses a 3x magnifier located between the shooter's eye and the sight, should there be no difference in the outcome? The magnifier just makes the dot and the target 3x bigger.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack crab View Post
    Query: If one uses a 3x magnifier located between the shooter's eye and the sight, should there be no difference in the outcome? The magnifier just makes the dot and the target 3x bigger.
    I use an EOTech EXPS2 sight with an EOTech Model G33 magnifier behind it and have an astigmatism in my eye that I use for sighting. With the sight alone, I see a roughly 3MOA dot which is fine for close-up work. If I use the magnifier, the target size is tripled but the red dot becomes a true 1 MOA size. That's because I can tune the focus of the magnifier to correct my vision.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack crab View Post
    Intuitively, a head is about an 8 inch circle. A 4 MOA dot is roughly 8 inches at 200 yards. So, beyond 200 yards the aiming point is bigger than the target. If using POA=POI, the shooter cannot determine where the dot is on the target because the dot obscures the target.

    That rationale is supported by the 2 MOA dot reaching to 400 yards where a 2 MOA dot becomes about 8 inches.

    The EOTech is odd. It should theoretically go to 800 yards with a 1 MOA dot. I am wondering if it becomes a physical limitation of eye balls, the glass, light transmission, etc. rather than a sight and target issue.

    Could it be that the dot sizes are not true to their names, i.e., the true dot size is 3.2 MOA but the manufacturer rounds it to 4 MOA.

    Query: If one uses a 3x magnifier located between the shooter's eye and the sight, should there be no difference in the outcome? The magnifier just makes the dot and the target 3x bigger.
    I wonder if it is the glass itself. By looking through a tube, you are going to induce some small level of magnification. The big square glass window of the Eotech may make it slightly harder to see the target at those ranges compared to the Aimpoint, despite its more refined dot.

  4. #14
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    Molon, how did you control for actual dot size/MOA (via the brightness settings) for these tests? I would love to see the dot size quantified at different brightness settings to understand how much overlap there is between 2 MOA and 4 MOA versions of the same RDS, and what the actual MOA is at the lowest useable setting for stuff like zeroing and precision shooting.

  5. #15
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    Molon, why do you repeatedly state that the Micro T1 for is an "advertised 4 moa"? Is it slightly less/more? Can this be inferred from its field performance?
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    Molon, why do you repeatedly state that the Micro T1 for is an "advertised 4 moa"? Is it slightly less/more? Can this be inferred from its field performance?
    It's advertised as 4 MOA, but is actually a 3.4 MOA dot. I work for Aimpoint as a Pro Staff guy.
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  7. #17
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    Interesting test. I took a carbine course where we had to engage a hostage type target..life size head but the shoot target was about 3/4 exposed behind the no shoot. Drill ran from about 9 yds out to 200. I ran a T1( 4 moa)with a 3X mounted behind it, which I used at about 75 yds and out...By dialing down the dot so I could almost see through it, I was pretty surprised on the hits I was able to make.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    It's advertised as 4 MOA, but is actually a 3.4 MOA dot. I work for Aimpoint as a Pro Staff guy.
    Thank you, Wayne.

    Is the T1/T2 2moa an accurate reported size?
    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 11-11-15 at 12:25.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  9. #19
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    Those are true 2 MOA sights.
    Colt's Manufacturing Company Armorer Instructor

    Aimpoint USA ProStaff

    www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com

  10. #20
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    Head-Shots with Red-Dots

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Those are true 2 MOA sights.
    Wayne, thanks for that info.

    Molon, nice work as always. I know it's been said a lot, but you a true asset to M4C.

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