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Thread: Head-Shots with Red-Dots

  1. #31
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    Precision Shooting With an Aimpoint


    First and foremost, the Aimpoint red dot sight is a combat sight. Its primary purpose is for use in situations that require “reflexive shooting” at multiple targets, at close ranges. The Aimpoint excels in this type of shooting because it easily allows you to shoot with both eyes open and to focus on the target while shooting. All of my self-defense AR-15s have Aimpoints mounted on them. However, should the need arise (for example, making a head-shot on an aggressor at 100 yards who has most of his body behind hard cover) the Aimpoint sight is certainly up to the task of making precision shots.

    There are those who claim that when using an Aimpoint sight with a four minute of angle dot, that it is not possible to shoot groups that are smaller than four minutes of angle in extreme spread. One such person has gone so far as to claim that groups shot from 100 yards using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot will be “greater than 4 inches. Usually much greater.” As we shall soon see, such statements are completely false.

    To determine the level of precision obtainable when using an Aimpoint sight with a 4 MOA dot, I mounted an Aimpoint ML2 with a 4 MOA dot on one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s. This AR-15 is easily capable of producing consistent sub-MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards when using a high magnification scope. Shooting with the Aimpoint sight was done from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards using NRA 200 yard High Power type targets scaled-down for 100 yards. (The aiming black is approximately the same width as a human head.) Sighting was done using the whole dot centered on the bullseye. Three 10-shot groups were fired in a row for evaluation.














    Zeroing the Aimpoint sight at 100 yards was conducted during a down-pour with 20-25 mph winds. The first two 10-shot groups were also fired under these conditions. The first 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.41”.









    With another couple clicks of windage and elevation adjustment, the second 10-shot group had all shots going into the X-ring. The extreme spread for this group was 1.19”.









    Just as quickly as the down-pour had started, the rain stopped, the winds died down and the sun began shining again. I posted a new and dry target on the 100 yard backer and continued shooting. The third 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.14”. The average extreme spread for all three of the 10-shot groups was 1.25”.









    ETA


    Here’s a little demonstration of the “practical accuracy” obtainable when using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot. For this exercise, I used a 14.5” chrome lined, NATO chambered carbine. Shooting was done from the prone supported position. From a distance of 50 yards, I fired ten quick shots at an FBI “Q” target. The results . . . ten “bullets in the brain pan, squish!”









    The 10-shot group has an extreme spread of 1.18”, which at 50 yards is equivalent to 2.26 MOA; far smaller than the 4 MOA dot on the Aimpoint. Again, this disproves the spouted nonsense that “practical accuracy” is not possible when using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot.









    Remember, I have astigmatisms in both eyes, which make using an Aimpoint a bit of a challenge. I have no doubt, that someone with better eyesight could produce better results.





    Another example. I'll be the first person to state that I couldn’t do this on command; none the less, the 10-shot group pictured below was fired using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot at a distance of 100 yards. I used the same set-up described in the first part of this thread. This group has an extreme spread of 0.77".









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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon View Post
    [B][SIZE=5]The 10-shot group has an extreme spread of 1.18”, which at 50 yards is equivalent to 2.26 MOA; far smaller than the 4 MOA dot on the Aimpoint. Again, this disproves the spouted nonsense that “practical accuracy” is not possible when using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot.
    Not trying to nitpick, but I don't want the nay-sayers jumping down your throat on a technicality.

    The above should read 2.36 MOA.

    That said, those are still results that are just fine with a 4 MOA dot. Really do love reading these write-ups. 100+ yards should be more than adequate for a majority of defensive purposes, and testing like this shows that you can be precise at those distances with RDS. Another great one Molon.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post

    Not trying to nitpick, but I don't want the nay-sayers jumping down your throat on a technicality.

    The above should read 2.36 MOA.
    Incorrect, but I appreciate the sentiment.

    One minute of angle at 100 yards equates to 1.047".

    One minute of angle at 50 yards equates to 0.5235".


    1.183" / 0.5235" = 2.2597 MOA, which rounds up to 2.26 MOA








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    Last edited by Molon; 12-19-15 at 13:09.
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  4. #34
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    I am a huge Aimpoint fanboy. We shoot ours to 500, but it's a holdover wind suck guessing game. I feel very good shooting them to 300 ( old Pappabear with old eyes) 300 to 500 I need a ACOG ( yes fanboy too for that distance). We have conducted the 1000 yard holdover wind suck with ACOG's.

    Molon is spot on with his simulations. IMHO, The brightness of the RDS effects size of dot and I always turn down as low as possible for such efforts.
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon View Post
    1.183" / 0.5235" = 2.2597 MOA, which rounds up to 2.26 MOA
    My bad, I always forget that MOA isn't exactly one inch...

  6. #36
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    RDSs, like irons, are an exercise in one's eyesite , assuming the person has mastered the basics. You either have good eyes at distance or you don't. Of course a quality zeroed RDS can hit way out there. Can you is the question.
    For me this becomes more difficult every year. My RDS confidence past 100yds is dwindling fast. Quickly restored with a 1-4x.
    Last edited by Brahmzy; 12-19-15 at 14:02.

  7. #37
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    So, what is the verdict on the Aimpoint Pro? Do you guys put it in the same category as the Aimpoints used here? Is it good to go at distances past 100 yds?
    I expend tremendous amounts of energy and time merely to be normal.

  8. #38
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    Mine (PRO) has never given me trouble, but the furthest I have used it is out at 300.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    I am a huge Aimpoint fanboy. We shoot ours to 500, but it's a holdover wind suck guessing game. I feel very good shooting them to 300 ( old Pappabear with old eyes) 300 to 500 I need a ACOG ( yes fanboy too for that distance). We have conducted the 1000 yard holdover wind suck with ACOG's.

    Molon is spot on with his simulations. IMHO, The brightness of the RDS effects size of dot and I always turn down as low as possible for such efforts.
    Heck yeah. Good stuff.
    Last edited by HD1911; 12-20-15 at 06:07.

  10. #40
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    I don't know why anyone would think that group size is limited to the size of the dot. Beyond the mechanical accuracy of the rifle and cartridge, what determines group size is simply how steadily and consistently you hold the rifle while firing. Those things have nothing to do with what sighting device you are using. It's all about fundamentals.
    "This motto may adorn their tombs
    (Let tyrants come and view):
    We rather seek these silent rooms
    Than live as slaves to you."

    Lemuel Haynes, 1775

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