Rock Island Firearms

[John Wist]

I have one of the GI models and I love it. Accurate reliable with a pretty good trigger. My only gripe is the GI sights. I plan to have them replaced ASAP.

[Phazuka]

Mule,

What makes you think the Philippine made RIA has Chinese parts in it? And something more than "I heard it from my cousin who's uncle once worked on a bus that passed the Philippine factory once a day".

While the first half of your post might seem to indicate you know what you're talking about, the last paragraph reveals you really don't have a clue.

Sincerely,

+1

Very interesting first post for Mule.....

[Lagadelphia]

I've had one for several years now and after about ~125 or so rounds, it has been flawless ever since. During that break in time I would occasionally have the slide lock back with one still left in the mag or some times the last round in the mag would eject along with the last fired empty. Like I said, after about 125 rounds, that went away. I only have tried ball ammo as it is just a range toy. I don't care if it can or cannot feed HP's.

I bought it to see what all the fuss was about with the 1911 model pistol. I'm a Glock guy so it was never going to be my goto pistol so I wasn't going to spend a whole lot for just a range toy. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't be out much as I am loath to sell guns. I've sold two and have regretted it ever since. I did a lot of reading about it and about how great the CS was should you ever need it so I took the plunge.

I've been happy with mine for what it is. Looking at the internals and the machining marks on the inside of the slide, etc... you can tell that it isn't a painstakingly made firearm. It's crude but it works.

[Mule]

How someone can determine my experience and first hand knowledge from a brief internet statement really shows who has a clue or not
Being an engineer in the small arms industry with a focus on military small arms procurement, I know a little about metallurgical compositions and machine tooling.
Metallurgical properties are like DNA, very easy to establish the origin. And with numerous reference samples of Chinese military firearms, including Norinco 1911's, and Rock Island Armory .45's for comparison, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that only enough work is done in the Philippines to get around the import restrictions. Anyone here care to compare tool marks on a previously imported Norinco 1911 to a Rock Island Armory 1911? Want to guess where the Philippine operation got the tooling that they do use? But, this is nothing new, lots of US firearms companies do similar sourcing of their parts and try to hide the fact. It's my job to make sure no substandard parts make it into the military supply chain. This kind of sub-sourcing can get one in a jam depending on the end use of the component. Lots of examples of fraud related to military contracting and violating Country of Origin restrictions is referenced via the FOIA on the DoD IG website. There was also a ATF investigation a few years ago related to an importation operation that referenced the Philippine facility. Supporting documentation revealed the gun manufacturing facility in the Philippines did not house adequate equipment to support full production of firearms. I'm not implying illegal activity is taking place, but only pointing out the structured manufacturing process to comply with US State Dept restrictions on the importation of Chinese military firearms/weapons placed upon the US commercial market. Of course I could be wrong, maybe they are doing everything in-house at that Philippine factory as of recently. I don't really see any of this as being a big deal, our tax dollars just bought 10's of thousands of Chinese AK's via Jordan for the Iraqi Army, now that's a reason to call out if someone needs one.

[ToddG]

Everyone please stick to facts and leave the name-calling and personal challenges to more appropriate forums (like showyourass.com).

Mule, pm inbound.

[Mule]

PM replied with requested information

[HARDONEM]

Ok. For an opinion on the Rock I offer you this:

Purchased in March o7, my RIA 1911 .45ACP has had no failures. I've fired over 1300 standard hardball and Federal Hydrashoks with very nice results. Like a few have stated, the old GI style sights suck. No ding to RIA, but an acknowledgement that times change and so does technology. Better sights are available and worth the extra dough. As a low end firearm for learning basic smithing, it's a good one. Ray and Ivan, two of their more familiar representatives on the 'net are on a few different sites and correspond with ease to all who ask for assistance with customer service. They (RIA) have been know to replace entire pistols due to problems that arose from the factory. I don't carry mine as a duty or CCW, but I enjoy the fact that mine functions properly when used. It's my .45 fun gun, nothing more, nothing less. For $350, I added a .38 Super to my fold. Low price but again a functioning tool that just works. What the original poster thinks, I hope he fires a few different models before settling down for just anything. That's just a smart way to select what you're going to be happy with.


Sorry for the book, just my two cents.

[Phazuka]

hi mule, can you provide documentation and sources for your information? thanks.

[Charles Daly]

PM replied with requested information

I would also like a PM (or public posting if Mule is willing) any documentation he might have on the Phillipine factory that makes RIA (Armscor) that shows Chinese components are used in the production of RIA guns. Since Charles Daly, Hi-Standard and STI are also made in that facility, it is of great interest to several of us if Mule's statement is correct.

Photographs comparing tool marks of the Chinese and Philippine component would be interesting, but not definitive, unless they were taken by an independant party. However, it would bolster Mule's position just to see them.

State Department has always taken the position that if only 1 part from a proscribed country is used in the production of a firearm, then that firearm would not be able to be imported into the US.

If Armscor is breaking the ITAR regs, then State Department (PM-DTC) needs to know about it.

ETA: My apologies for the earlier name calling.

[Slater]

Geez, does that mean that my High Standard M1911 is loaded with illegal parts?