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Thread: Stag Arms Gets FFL Revoked

  1. #41
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    So stupid. We need to get rid of the FFL laws ASAP. I'd like to get rid of the whole damn federal government for that matter.

    Whether the Constitution authorized this FUBAR system or was powerless to prevent it, all that matters is the suited sociopaths act as if they have authority to do this type of shit and they have plenty of hired muscle that are willing to force it on everybody.
    Last edited by henschman; 12-23-15 at 22:35.
    "This motto may adorn their tombs
    (Let tyrants come and view):
    We rather seek these silent rooms
    Than live as slaves to you."

    Lemuel Haynes, 1775

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackblack73 View Post
    I was just about to post the same. I'm no constitutional scholar, but the government can do many things that are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution because of the interstate commerce clause.
    The Commerce Clause came about from states passing tarriffs against products from other states. It was to open up trade, not shut it down as it is now used.

  3. #43
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    In Ogden in 1824 and Kidd in 1888 the Supreme Court gives congress a pretty broad definition when it comes to the commerce clause. It's not only about tariffs.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TF82 View Post
    In Ogden in 1824 and Kidd in 1888 the Supreme Court gives congress a pretty broad definition when it comes to the commerce clause. It's not only about tariffs.

    I am aware the supreme Court has frequently legislated from the bench.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowprone View Post
    Pretty much what happened to Sabre also.
    uh, no. Unless you know that Stag is involved in a whole helluva lot of other stuff.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowprone View Post
    Pretty much what happened to Sabre also.
    conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud, making false statements on export and import documents, and for conspiracy to violate the Arms Export Control Act.

    A bit of a step up
    http://www.brentwoodhomepage.com/bre...7#.VnuBcI-cEqR

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB1 View Post
    I am aware the supreme Court has frequently legislated from the bench.
    Surely the Supreme Court, sitting 37 years after the constitution was ratified had less of an understanding about the meaning and purpose of that clause then some guys on a forum 228 years later. Sorry, Stag makes firearms and those firearms are mostly sold interstate so the Feds get to require serial numbers. Similarly, if you complete an 80% receiver for your own use its not part of interstate commerce and there's no serial number required. I dislike most firearms regulations as much as the next guy but I'm afraid this one doesn't even border on unconstitutional.

  8. #48
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    Probably when people stop voting for stupid politicians that refuse to hold bureaucrats responsible since that is what they were elected to do.

    Unfortunately everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    If I remember correctly Fast and Furious lost track of more than that and one of those guns was used to murder a law enforcement officer. When does ATF get their license to operate revoked?



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  9. #49
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    Lets look at this from another perspective.

    SIONICS, being a manufacturer in a Mexico border state gets inspected every year. Stag, most likely gets inspected every 3-4 years. they know this and we know this.

    Stag was negligent in their serial number records. They also failed to file form 2's on machine guns. They had firearms (receivers or complete guns) missing.

    All of these are a big no no in this industry.

    Local gun shops are shut down every year due being a to minor mistakes on 4473's... A single form.

    Regardless of our rights to bear arms under 2A, laws have been passed dating back to 1968 that manufacturers and local gun shops have to abide by. Agree with them or not, we are a slave to them. NFA being a whole nother ball park.

    We might not agree with them but as FFL's we signed off to agree to the laws.
    "your AR is shit, change my mind" - Will Larson

    I make work horses, not show ponies.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    If I remember correctly Fast and Furious lost track of more than that and one of those guns was used to murder a law enforcement officer. When does ATF get their license to operate revoked?
    Great question. When does Obama's administration get its license to operate involved, given all their lawlessness?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB1 View Post
    No one forced the federal government to do something not specifically listed in it's allowed list of functions.

    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

    Find where it is delegated to them. Otherwise we have the following:

    “Our government ... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.” - JUSTICE LOUIS D. BRANDEIS

    Creating exemptions for itself does not make it all good either.
    Great point.
    There's always those that cite the Interstate Commerce clause as a carte blanche to government intrusion.
    The thing is, even IF Stag ONLY sold receivers within its own state, the ATF would be all over their ass over serial numbers. SO, no, the Interstate Commerce clause is not the justification for the ATF.

    Someone making their own suppressor involves ZERO interstate commerce, yet the ATF is all over that.

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