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Thread: Whats better? LWRC M6A2 or LMT w/monolithic upper

  1. #21
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    My advice is to watch some videos on how they are assembled. Each manufacturer has pros/cons, and I'm a huge critic. I'll trying listing what I see and doubtedly understand...

    Do you want consumable gas rings?
    Do you want rod springs that will wear out?
    Do you want to accidentally leave the gas block in the "non-cycle" mode so the action won't cycle?
    Do you think you'll wear out the gas block detent?
    Of course not, but someone at LMT doesn't think they need to change that.
    Or maybe you want keylock/mlok...sorry, that won't be for you either.
    The big thing going for LMT is changing barrels and can alter between piston and DI. This is probably more important if you are LEM and you have 1000's of rifles to support.

    LWRC I believe is self regulated so you don't need to move the gas block setting. I presume this means I don't have to tune the piston to whatever ammo, barrel, or suppressor I'm using (operator error).
    But it still uses a rod spring that will eventually need replacement. When? They may last many years, but hopefully I can find the part after the system becomes obsolete (which is a big disadvantage for any piston design right now).
    You want MLOK or Keymod? LWRC doesn't think you should have an option.
    LWRC has the spiral barrel. No has proven it has much of an advantage. I won't believe the cooler barrel until I see thermal imaging.

    POF has no rod spring, maybe no gas rings, no need to remove the rail...but their proprietary rail is very tall and there's nothing great about it. It doesn't look like POF is that easy to thoroughly clean, but then again, you shouldn't have to thoroughly clean. But still, I like the option of removing the rail to clean and investigate.
    POF also has a better bolt with the roller bearing.
    POF also has that interesting E2 design which is supposed to reduce extractor breakage.

    PWS is another system I've been interested in. If long stroke pistons were so good, wouldn't others being doing the same??

    So POF seems to have the better gas system, followed by LWRC, and then LMT. But POF might have too many negatives, which puts LWRC in the #1 spot. But I value full (mirror) ambidextrous, and I think LMT's MARS might get the #1 spot. Why mirror ambidextrous? It isn't just for LEM's that have a variety of left and right handed shooters so want a operating system to fit the general population. Becoming ambidextrous gives me advantage.

    So as you can see, there a bunch of pros/cons to weigh out and decide what is most important to you, and which ones will annoy the heck out of you. For the price these manufacturers are charging, I won't pay their prices for their mediocrity.

    I want:
    LMT's monolithic rail, but MLOK.
    LMT's MARS mirror lower/upper controls.
    POF's piston system.
    POF's bolt.
    POF's E2 chamber.
    LWRCI's self regulating gas block (presuming this is an advantage).
    The best metal treatment (nitride barrel, N3, etc).

    Why can't manufactures build it?

    Jake

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    My advice is to watch some videos on how they are assembled. Each manufacturer has pros/cons, and I'm a huge critic. I'll trying listing what I see and doubtedly understand...

    Do you want consumable gas rings?
    Do you want rod springs that will wear out?
    Do you want to accidentally leave the gas block in the "non-cycle" mode so the action won't cycle?
    Do you think you'll wear out the gas block detent?
    Of course not, but someone at LMT doesn't think they need to change that.
    Or maybe you want keylock/mlok...sorry, that won't be for you either.
    The big thing going for LMT is changing barrels and can alter between piston and DI. This is probably more important if you are LEM and you have 1000's of rifles to support.

    LWRC I believe is self regulated so you don't need to move the gas block setting. I presume this means I don't have to tune the piston to whatever ammo, barrel, or suppressor I'm using (operator error).
    But it still uses a rod spring that will eventually need replacement. When? They may last many years, but hopefully I can find the part after the system becomes obsolete (which is a big disadvantage for any piston design right now).
    You want MLOK or Keymod? LWRC doesn't think you should have an option.
    LWRC has the spiral barrel. No has proven it has much of an advantage. I won't believe the cooler barrel until I see thermal imaging.

    POF has no rod spring, maybe no gas rings, no need to remove the rail...but their proprietary rail is very tall and there's nothing great about it. It doesn't look like POF is that easy to thoroughly clean, but then again, you shouldn't have to thoroughly clean. But still, I like the option of removing the rail to clean and investigate.
    POF also has a better bolt with the roller bearing.
    POF also has that interesting E2 design which is supposed to reduce extractor breakage.

    PWS is another system I've been interested in. If long stroke pistons were so good, wouldn't others being doing the same??

    So POF seems to have the better gas system, followed by LWRC, and then LMT. But POF might have too many negatives, which puts LWRC in the #1 spot. But I value full (mirror) ambidextrous, and I think LMT's MARS might get the #1 spot. Why mirror ambidextrous? It isn't just for LEM's that have a variety of left and right handed shooters so want a operating system to fit the general population. Becoming ambidextrous gives me advantage.

    So as you can see, there a bunch of pros/cons to weigh out and decide what is most important to you, and which ones will annoy the heck out of you. For the price these manufacturers are charging, I won't pay their prices for their mediocrity.

    I want:
    LMT's monolithic rail, but MLOK.
    LMT's MARS mirror lower/upper controls.
    POF's piston system.
    POF's bolt.
    POF's E2 chamber.
    LWRCI's self regulating gas block (presuming this is an advantage).
    The best metal treatment (nitride barrel, N3, etc).

    Why can't manufactures build it?

    Jake
    Because a target audience of 1 or near 1 is not exactly profitable.


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    Do you want to accidentally leave the gas block in the "non-cycle" mode so the action won't cycle?
    Do you think you'll wear out the gas block detent?
    Of course not, but someone at LMT doesn't think they need to change that.
    Or maybe you want keylock/mlok...sorry, that won't be for you either.
    The big thing going for LMT is changing barrels and can alter between piston and DI. This is probably more important if you are LEM and you have 1000's of rifles to support.
    You may be confusing the Noveske Switchblock with LMT's piston system. LMT's piston system only has Suppressed/Unsuppressed settings. Are you referring to the plunger that allows you to change gas settings on LMT's piston system?

    AR's with piston systems have been proven to be unnecessary, and fail to offer anything that DI does not. I have an LMT piston barrel that I got a few ago to find out for myself that it has no advantage over DI (suppressed or unsuppressed).
    To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. --Theodore Roosevelt--

  4. #24
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    Piston systems do not blow gasses directly onto the bolt, so it gets nowhere nearly as dirty or hot. Some people consider that advantageous. Some do not.

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    Last edited by MajorLonghorn; 01-21-16 at 13:30.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBK View Post
    You may be confusing the Noveske Switchblock with LMT's piston system. LMT's piston system only has Suppressed/Unsuppressed settings. Are you referring to the plunger that allows you to change gas settings on LMT's piston system?

    AR's with piston systems have been proven to be unnecessary, and fail to offer anything that DI does not. I have an LMT piston barrel that I got a few ago to find out for myself that it has no advantage over DI (suppressed or unsuppressed).
    I saw a LMT video where someone had to twist the "valve". There was a setting for "fire". The narrator said if it didn't say "fire", the action wouldn't cycle...or something like that.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorLonghorn View Post
    Piston systems do not blow gasses directly onto the bolt, so it gets nowhere nearly as dirty or hot. Some people consider that advantageous. Some do not.
    More so an advantage when changing barrel lengths, running suppressed, or in a situation where you aren't lubing and cleaning the weapon.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorLonghorn View Post
    Piston systems do not blow gasses directly onto the bolt, so it gets nowhere nearly as dirty or hot. Some people consider that advantageous. Some do not.
    Actually, a piston system just does not dump gas directly onto the bolt tail. In my experience shooting a suppressed piston system, the chamber, bolt carrier, and bolt carrier group do not stay free of carbon. Using a quality lubricant, properly, does more to combat carbon than using a piston system over a DI system. This isn't news.
    To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. --Theodore Roosevelt--

  8. #28
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    No, things won't stay perfectly clean, but they will stay much cleaner than in a DI system.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorLonghorn View Post
    No, things won't stay perfectly clean, but they will stay much cleaner than in a DI system.
    Which has been proven to not be an issue. Reference "Filthy 14". Whatever small difference there is in carbon build-up is quickly diminished by all of the other things that DI systems do dramatically better.
    To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. --Theodore Roosevelt--

  10. #30
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    If this is a serious question...LMT.

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