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Thread: Jeff Gurwitch and The Competition-to-Combat Crossover, Part 3

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stukas87 View Post
    Optic reliability, my experience. I have had a optic only go down one time. Back 2005 Iraq I tripped on a curb slamming my Aimpoint CompM2 on the concrete (zero gone). I did have a BUIS. Now had I not had a BUIS, then I would have just shot through the tube. Used the lens tube itself as my rear sight and lined it up with my front sight post. (Works well enough for CQB distances.) This trip, I fell slamming my rifle on a pile of rocks during a op. My Trijicon VCOG did not drop it’s zero at all.
    Just feel it's worth adding: if you trip and fall on your rifle and your BUIS hit the curb, decent odds they'll fare worse than most modern combat optics.

  2. #32
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    I read Jeff's article including the text re BUIS, saw a couple Eotechs and posted quick. I went back and looked at the setups. There were actually only 2 running Eotechs. Of those, 1 actually has a full BUIS setup (doh me). The other I saw before simply has his EXPS mounted back a notch too far.

    Everyone else is running Elcans and VCOGs! So please disregard my prior comment. I did not realize this was the case.

  3. #33
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    I'll echo the fact a lot of mil guys ditch the buis is due to the fact it won't stay folded down. I personally ran an m27 and I ditched the kac buis for magpul pro's because the kac micro front wouldn't stay up. I was all for me and my guys running irons because we ran eotechs. In a cqb enviroment, more times than a dozen houses were well lit enough that most guys flipped up their nods (esp in training shoot houses). Eotech's were keen on flickering/shutting off at inopportune times; it only makes sense to have a legit aiming system especially when you intend to take a life to forgo yours/your buddies being taken. I hated the "you're 10 yds away, ghost ring it" mindset. Optics and electronics fail. Then again, it depended on mission. In cqb they make 100% sense to me, but I understand the greenside/night ops side as well. YMMV, this is my humble dumb opinion, but I held my marines to it.

  4. #34
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    Howdy,

    Interesting thread. I didn't read the articles, too lazy, but I did read the entire thread.

    Gee, I'm really old, Served during the '80s when ALL M-16/CAR-16 had carry handles and very few GIs had an issued Colt 3x21 scope that attached to the carry handle. I had one that I bought myself at a gun show and was allowed to use it. ( Was TDY and claimed my unit issued it, and when I returned to my unit I claimed it was issued when I was TDY.)

    My claim to fame is being the person that "invented" the ORC ( Optics Ready Carbine ) back in the early 90's. The flattop uppers had just hit the market and wanted to buy a carbine without a front sight and wanted one with just a gas block like the long barreled varmint guns were running. Since I was going to run an optic I didn't see the need for a standard front sight base.

    Everyone that was manufacturing AR at the time ( DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. ) said I was crazy, which isn't true because I've been tested by the VA ( they did want me to follow up with a specialist in Houston ) so I built one myself based on a DPMS shorty with a custom stainless barrel and gas block.

    Over twenty years later I still have it and it's my favorite .223/5.556 AR.

    Nowadays I just don't see the point of having iron sights on a weapon other than a handgun or a shotgun.

    Paul

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonesshowmonkey View Post
    That this seems to have turned into a debate of To BUIS Or Not To BUIS is hilarious to me. These are professional pipe-hitters out on the pointy end of things. I'm going to guess that they have fired more shots in anger (or, rather, cold calculation) than 99% of posters here. If they choose to not run BUIS, they are doing so for a reason.

    I'm liking how the VCAS appears to almost be standard issue on these rifles.
    The fact is that many here are exactly the type that carry these rifles every day. I would be careful about your 99% assumption. Many folks here have either been there, or are currently there. This isn't TOS.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mamma View Post
    I think it depends on how the BUIS is mounted, and the type of primary optic.

    Some primary optics might be a simple 1x electronic sight that you are backing up mainly in the event of battery failure. So some people use pop up BUIS along the top (maybe even a fixed front sight with a pop up rear sight) so you can put them to use quickly, probably even with the primary optic in place.

    Other primary optics might be more complicated. People might use 45 degree offset sights for these situations. These can be put to use very quickly.

    You bring up a very good point about practicing with it (or not). I have used a 45 degree offset BUIS on a competition gun (with a magnified primary optic). I have to plan on using the BUIS on stages (for close targets) right before I shoot or I may forget to use it. I do practice with them though, and I have used it multiple times (and it works well for me).

    I have a friend that had a 45 degree offset BUIS on his competition gun (with a magnified primary optic). We shoot the same matches. But he said he *never* used his BUIS (not even once) because he never remembered it was there when shooting a stage. Eventually he removed them.

    Joe Mamma
    I should have amended my statement to limit my comments to magnified optics like the ACOG with a BUIS. Obviously an RDS can easily be made to cowitness a BUIS through the sight with no need to remove it unless the optic is totally obscured.

  7. #37
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    I blew it off the articles because he is a damn lefty.

  8. #38
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    Jeff/stukas, in your second article, you showed a couple rifles with Keymod handguards. I didn't see any in this latest installment, or any mention of them. Are any guys still running Keymod handguards (or Mlok, now that it is an option), and what have your experiences been with them?

    Great articles -- very interesting and informative.
    "This motto may adorn their tombs
    (Let tyrants come and view):
    We rather seek these silent rooms
    Than live as slaves to you."

    Lemuel Haynes, 1775

  9. #39
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    Not being LE or MIL it's interesting to see what it actually used by professionals. Thanks OP for the links and thanks to the author of the articles! It helps put things in perspective, for this civilian anyways.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by henschman View Post
    Jeff/stukas, in your second article, you showed a couple rifles with Keymod handguards. I didn't see any in this latest installment, or any mention of them. Are any guys still running Keymod handguards (or Mlok, now that it is an option), and what have your experiences been with them?

    Great articles -- very interesting and informative.
    Good question, I only saw one rifle with Key Mod this year. The reason I think based on several factors. Firstly I think is not that no one is using them instead it has to do with the unit I was assigned to. We are semi-compartmentalized, so when it comes to gear a lot of guys are only exposed to what they see their buddies running. A good example of this, I saw war belts being used for the first time on a team in 2010. A guy on my team got one, we all tried it and within a week we all went out and got them on the team. Same thing with rifle accessories, one guy goes out and gets something it works well it will catch on within the unit. I think that was the case with the Key Mods from last years article they were all from the same company.
    Also another factor when looking for setups to cover is exposer to a lot of soldiers. My ability to try and get as wide as sampling as I can. This past trip I was somewhat limited due to my mission and where I was. Lastly this year RIS II was finally issued to everyone. Even though the RIS II has been (the standard item) for guns the last 2 years or so. The supply system can be really slow. We were not getting the extended RISII rails until the beginning of the deployment last year. So a lot of guys could not wait and did not want to roll with a carbine length rail so they went out and purchased on their own. This trip both RIS rails were available (with and without FSB cut out).

    AS far as Key Mod rails go, personally I was skeptical of Key Mod, after trying one out I actually kind of like it. Last years article I know I was getting bashed on here from some saying why would soldiers pick rails that have not been dropped tested and stuff. Frankly most Operators could care less about stuff like that, if they spend their own coin on accessories they are going to purchase what they like and might later use on their personal rifles.

    I brought of War belts... it seems they are on their way out. This trip I saw lots of micro duty belts being worn. In fact I just got one from Ronin Tactics to try out!
    Last edited by Stukas87; 02-06-16 at 08:02.

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