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Thread: Jeff Gurwitch and The Competition-to-Combat Crossover, Part 3

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonesshowmonkey View Post
    That this seems to have turned into a debate of To BUIS Or Not To BUIS is hilarious to me. These are professional pipe-hitters out on the pointy end of things. I'm going to guess that they have fired more shots in anger (or, rather, cold calculation) than 99% of posters here. If they choose to not run BUIS, they are doing so for a reason.

    I'm liking how the VCAS appears to almost be standard issue on these rifles.
    This.

    And FWIW, the VTAC padded seems to be the standard issue and most common. The VCAS shows up every now and again, but the overwhelming majority of photos that come out from these units that are using the modern CQBR show the VTAC.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonesshowmonkey View Post
    That this seems to have turned into a debate of To BUIS Or Not To BUIS is hilarious to me. These are professional pipe-hitters out on the pointy end of things.
    No one was judging anyone we were discussing on a discussion forum. Maybe be a little less sensitive

  3. #23
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    The real reason most soldiers hate a bus, is because their shitty, worn out matech is impossible to keep in the folded position.

    Adding to the fact that my aim point WAS my back up to my peq15, iron sights start to sound really stupid when 60-80% of the mission is done in darkness.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

  4. #24
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    Hell my BUIS on my last issued M16A4 was the carry handle crammed into my daypack/camelback. Somehow I managed to survive my deployment to Iraq.

    Having spent the majority of my time in the shit hole of Al Anbar doing stuff in the dark, I can see the logic behind ditching a BUIS or any iron sights. They never get used, add weight, and take up space.

    On the other hand I still always carried that carry handle, just in case. So I can understand the desire to maintain the iron sights just in case the optics go down. For immediate use though, I think the BUIS is not a terribly useful concept. For example I don't see it as realistic to expect to immediately (under fire) ditch a busted optic off the rifle, and get your irons up and start fighting again. Let's be realistic here, none of us train to do that so it wouldn't be a muscle memory type event, and were your optics to get hit or shit the bed in combat you are going to transition to a sidearm if you have it and need it because the bad guy is in your face; or you're going to sort out your issue as best you can behind cover if you can.

    Someone mentioned carrying a back up optic, and that is honestly as good an idea as a BUIS in my opinion if you can afford it. If you have to dump the busted optic off the top of your rifle, if you have a functional pre-zeroed optic handy as a back up that is what I'd put back on if available.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    For immediate use though, I think the BUIS is not a terribly useful concept. For example I don't see it as realistic to expect to immediately (under fire) ditch a busted optic off the rifle, and get your irons up and start fighting again. Let's be realistic here, none of us train to do that so it wouldn't be a muscle memory type event, and were your optics to get hit or shit the bed in combat you are going to transition to a sidearm if you have it and need it because the bad guy is in your face; or you're going to sort out your issue as best you can behind cover if you can.
    I think it depends on how the BUIS is mounted, and the type of primary optic.

    Some primary optics might be a simple 1x electronic sight that you are backing up mainly in the event of battery failure. So some people use pop up BUIS along the top (maybe even a fixed front sight with a pop up rear sight) so you can put them to use quickly, probably even with the primary optic in place.

    Other primary optics might be more complicated. People might use 45 degree offset sights for these situations. These can be put to use very quickly.

    You bring up a very good point about practicing with it (or not). I have used a 45 degree offset BUIS on a competition gun (with a magnified primary optic). I have to plan on using the BUIS on stages (for close targets) right before I shoot or I may forget to use it. I do practice with them though, and I have used it multiple times (and it works well for me).

    I have a friend that had a 45 degree offset BUIS on his competition gun (with a magnified primary optic). We shoot the same matches. But he said he *never* used his BUIS (not even once) because he never remembered it was there when shooting a stage. Eventually he removed them.

    Joe Mamma
    Last edited by Joe Mamma; 01-29-16 at 11:03.
    "Reliability above all else"
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  6. #26
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    First off great discussion!
    With each article besides just listing out what accessories are in use. I wanted to try and give my take on the why behind some of the trends. Hence first article trying to explain why KISS set ups hold back your shooting capability. Article two: a suppressed rifle is the way to go for combat. And in the latest one a little on why the lack of BUIS.
    In regards to the lack of BUIS, I purposely did not go into all the reasons why it is becoming the current trend. (I did not want to draw away too much form the main topic of current accessories.)
    To expand on why the lack of BUIS. While confidence in current optics (which I mentioned), the mission (night ops), the ability to transition to a pistol are all factors. The biggest reason I think is the institutionalization of optics as the primary method of aiming a rifle.
    On the Army side of the house starting in basic training soldiers train and qualify with an Aimpoint red dot. Iron sights are seen as back up. This has been the new norm for at least the last 5 years or so. The benefit of this of course Soldiers are much more proficient shooters with optics. The down side of course is shooting skill with irons is becoming lost. And not just the skill but I hate to say this but the confidence in iron sights that you can shoot well with them is something not present in the mindset in a lot of the current crop of soldiers.
    Has this created a reliance on optics with the current soldier? Unfortunately to some extent I would say yes. Have there been some instances where not running a BUIS has bitten some soldier in the ass, I am sure it has happened. What has replaced a BUIS in a lot of soldier’s minds? Running a backup optic. Lets face it we are in a digital age, one where our youth see things differently. Our 1-4 Elcan sights are issued with a MRDS. In a lot of soldier’s minds if you have two optics on your rifle that is plenty of back up for Murphy’s Law. I have to say I agree with this reasoning, (and I am from the generation that for a time only had iron sights.)

    Optic reliability, my experience. I have had a optic only go down one time. Back 2005 Iraq I tripped on a curb slamming my Aimpoint CompM2 on the concrete (zero gone). I did have a BUIS. Now had I not had a BUIS, then I would have just shot through the tube. Used the lens tube itself as my rear sight and lined it up with my front sight post. (Works well enough for CQB distances.) This trip, I fell slamming my rifle on a pile of rocks during a op. My Trijicon VCOG did not drop it’s zero at all.

    So trust in reliability of modern optics based on the culture level (institutionalization that Optics are the only way to go), along with the capability to run dual optics, (really three with IR/visible lasers I think are the biggest factors in the decision not to run BUIS.
    Is it wrong? Traditionally speaking many would say yes. But having experienced the current trend first hand. In 15 years of operating I have only used a BUIS one time, luckily modern optics are only getting stronger and battery life longer.

    In the end I think it all boils down to the confidence the shooters has in his equipment and what is viewed as a back up. And this view with the modern soldier is changing.

    I appreciate your comments and feedback.

    Jeff G!
    Last edited by Stukas87; 01-31-16 at 04:32.

  7. #27
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    Thanks for chiming in Jeff and for taking the time to share your thoughts through those articles.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stukas87 View Post
    First off great discussion!
    .....................................................................

    I appreciate your comments and feedback.

    Jeff G!
    Jeff,
    Thank you for the articles and the discussion they have generated.

  9. #29
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    Thanks JG. Great info. and I appreciate you taking the time to share.

  10. #30
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    Yeah, Jeff. Thank you for sharing your insight.
    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 01-31-16 at 13:55.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

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