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Thread: The Vltor A5: my journey to, and away

  1. #1
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    The Vltor A5: my journey to, and away

    About a year ago, I began experimenting with the Vltor A5 system. My rifle is a 16.1" DDM4 midlength gas, and I used the A5H2 buffer and mil-spec action spring that came with it. Both suppressed, and unsuppressed, with a variety of ammunition, I felt that the function was very smooth. Follow-up shots were honestly faster, and recoil was perceived as less.

    The first carbine course, however, that I took the rifle to, I began to get malfunctions once the magazines got dirty. Specifically, the BCG would fail to fully strip a round from the magazine on reloads, or the BCG would fail to fully seat having stripped a round. It was never an issue that presented during live fire, but only on reloads. Still, it irked me.

    Today, I cleaned my rifle, and lubricated it lightly with Weapon Shield. The BCG is a Fathom Arms QPQ'ed BCG with a Colt ejector spring and a Ken Elmore "Green" extractor spring (of note, some failures at the course I attended involved the round not fully leaving the magazine, removing "over-spring ejector/extractor" from the equation as the culprit).

    I brought two lowers with me. One is a factory DDM4 lower with a Sprinco Blue spring and H buffer, and one is the factory DDM4 lower using a Vltor A5 with H2 buffer and mil-spec spring. After I got home, I measured the spring. It is exactly 12.5" long, which is directly in the middle of the specification for a M16 action spring. It has roughly 2,000 rounds on it, and had less than 1,000 when I first began having issues.

    During my testing, I had 3 failures with the Vltor A5 system to fully strip and seat the first round in the magazine. Two of these are seen in slow motion in the videos to follow. Using the Sprinco Blue spring, and H buffer, shot-to-shot was a bit more "bouncy", and there was more muzzle-dip upon dropping the bolt on a fresh magazine. Of note, all initial shots show the bolt-release being depressed (fully and swiftly), and the magazines are fully loaded G2 PMAG's. I will let the following videos speak for themselves, as I use IMI MK262, PMC Bronze .223, and Wolf 55gr Polyformance to demonstrate how each performs with each action system, both suppressed (Surefire 556-212) and unsuppressed (-212 FH).


    *no video on m4c due to site constraints.

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    at this point the only thing I can think of is that the buffer itself was not the only variable. While in spec, I would have liked to see if the malfunction was repeatable with other springs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thei3ug View Post
    at this point the only thing I can think of is that the buffer itself was not the only variable. While in spec, I would have liked to see if the malfunction was repeatable with other springs.
    I agree. There's a good chance that another spring might do the trick. I have three carbines with A5s installed on them. I've had weird ejections and a couple FTFs on one. (Shorter spring like yours.) Installed a new spring and so far, knock on wood, it's working properly through the first 250 rounds.
    “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
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    Every AR I own (10) has a Vltor A5 buffer. I have run them in different courses over the years (most of the time it was the SBR variants) and I have never had the issues you are describing. Two of the course were 1200-1500 rounds over 3 days.

    I only use the Sprinco green spring.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Every AR I own (10) has a Vltor A5 buffer. I have run them in different courses over the years (most of the time it was the SBR variants) and I have never had the issues you are describing. Two of the course were 1200-1500 rounds over 3 days.

    I only use the Sprinco green spring.
    I also use the A5 in all my ARs along with Sprinco Green springs, and have not had any issue in any of my setups. This includes 10.5, 11.5, 16" Carbine, 16" midlength, 18" intermediate. All both suppressed and unsuppressed.

    I only shoot 5.56 ammo, but have tried Tula on occasion, and have not had a problem.
    Last edited by firefighter37; 02-03-16 at 22:44.
    DPMS 16" Carbine- NcStar scope, UTG Rails, MagLite hose clamped to barrel | S&W Sigma | HiPoint 9mm | Lorcin 9mm | Jennings .22| Stevens 12 Ga

  6. #6
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    Like some of the other posters, I have built dozens of lowers with A5 systems in all configurations, and have never come across a problem like you describe. It doesn't sound like an issue with the recoil spring or the buffer. Did you use the same mag in each lower? Did the A5 equipped lower permit an over-insertion of the magazine?
    Regards,

    Jorge

    PS ...

    "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without
    bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too
    costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the
    odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be
    a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory,
    because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
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    Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Every AR I own (10) has a Vltor A5 buffer. I have run them in different courses over the years (most of the time it was the SBR variants) and I have never had the issues you are describing. Two of the course were 1200-1500 rounds over 3 days.

    I only use the Sprinco green spring.
    I was using the mil-spec spring that came with the A5 kit. Here is a slow motion video of the failure:


    I have noticed this with several other carbines when using mil-spec carbine springs, as well. My 14.5" Noveske, for one.

    It is my opinion based on thousands of rounds of personal experience, that the spring force of the mil-spec M4/M16 spring is insufficient to insure reliable function on anything but a flawlessly clean weapon, with flawlessly clean magazines. Your mileage may well vary, but this is not my opinion. It is my reality. As much as it irks me to do so, all my stuff is going over the Sprinco Blue springs, now. Because I'd REALLY REALLY! like my guns to go "bang" instead of "click", and I do keep my HD carbine "cruiser ready" instead of a round in the pipe, so this is more than just an academic concern for me.

    Mike Pannone was who turned me to the Sprinco stuff, because of his experiments/write-up with it. I'd have to agree, it's good kit.
    Last edited by WS6; 02-03-16 at 23:39.

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    Have you had a chance to talk to Vltor about this? I'd be interested in their assessment of your problem. It seems to me that a replacement buffer spring could fix your issue, but I'd like to hear Vltor's response.

    I had the same issue a few years ago, with fully-loaded Lancer AWMs, LMT Enhanced BCG, and Sprinco Green. At the time I thought the rounds were getting caught on the sharp corners at the end of the feedramps in the barrel extension. A light tap at the bottom of the mag would seat the round just fine. It only happened a few times out of dozens of reloads; I later filed those corners a bit, and I haven't been able to reproduce it since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mp43 View Post
    Like some of the other posters, I have built dozens of lowers with A5 systems in all configurations, and have never come across a problem like you describe. It doesn't sound like an issue with the recoil spring or the buffer. Did you use the same mag in each lower? Did the A5 equipped lower permit an over-insertion of the magazine?
    The same magazine was used, yes. I had 3 failures today in roughly 10 "events" with the A5. During VTAC Streetfighter, I had 2 events using the Carbine RE and mil-spec spring using a Noveske 14.5". During VTAC Nightfighter, I had at least 1-2 events per day, using the Vltor A5 setup. Prior to this, I had 1 event during a 1700 round course using the Noveske, and a Sprinco WHITE spring.

    The action spring is the direct culprit in these failures, as it fails to possess the strength to strip the top round from a fully loaded magazine AND chamber it fully, on occasion.

    Lancer L5 AWM's are slightly worse than PMAG's.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruin View Post
    Have you had a chance to talk to Vltor about this? I'd be interested in their assessment of your problem. It seems to me that a replacement buffer spring could fix your issue, but I'd like to hear Vltor's response.

    I had the same issue a few years ago, with fully-loaded Lancer AWMs, LMT Enhanced BCG, and Sprinco Green. At the time I thought the rounds were getting caught on the sharp corners at the end of the feedramps in the barrel extension. A light tap at the bottom of the mag would seat the round just fine. It only happened a few times out of dozens of reloads; I later filed those corners a bit, and I haven't been able to reproduce it since.
    This is not a Vltor problem, it's a mil-spec spring problem. However, the M16 spring seems to have just a TOUCH less wheaties than the carbine spring, and it is more apparent with the Vltor A5 setup. I had the same issues with mil-spec carbine RE on my Noveske. I blamed it on Noveske being out of spec because of all the issues Ive seen from them, but this Vltor on my DD underscores the fact that it's the spring, not the gun, in both cases.

    The sprinco Blue spring completely mitigates the issues.
    Last edited by WS6; 02-03-16 at 23:46.

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