Better optic for an SR25 APC then a NF NXS 2.5-10x42??

[masan]

OP, there are rumors about a 1-8 Nightforce in the future, not sure what kind of timeline you are on, but there has been mention of them over on the Hide:

http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...orce-1-x-scope

[pointblank4445]

No you are just discounting it.

Just an LE observer/sniper (still active) and amateur competitor. Armorer for AI, Rem, HK, etc. Firearms and tactics instructor.

And your assertions about LE are not accurate of anything I've seen. In all the classes, training, symposiums I've been to across the country, I rarely see the optics you describe. Most places can't afford anything that has an MSR reticle or would opt for the Horus price. Heck, there are even some institutions that advise AGAINST FFP and busy reticles (Snipercraft/ASA being one). The logic is that certain reticles can be easily lost at the low end. From our applications and activations, I would agree that the Horus style reticles are not a necessity.

While I would never make assumptions about Mil sniping, as only a fool talks about things he does not know (hint), I feel that needs of the civilian practical precision shooter would likely mirror aspects LE sniping and PSR shooting than than it would Mil. And in the end, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference...

[Primus Pilum]

Just an LE observer/sniper (still active) and amateur competitor. Armorer for AI, Rem, HK, etc. Firearms and tactics instructor.

And your assertions about LE are not accurate of anything I've seen. In all the classes, trainings, symposiums I've been to across the country, I rarely see the optics you describe. Most places can't afford anything that has an MSR reticle or would opt for the Horus price. Heck, there are even some institutions that advise AGAINST FFP and busy reticles (Snipercraft/ASA being one). The logic is that certain reticles can be easily lost at the low end. From our applications and activations, I would agree that the Horus style reticles are not a necessity.

While I would never make assumptions about Mil sniping, as only a fool talks about things he does not know (hint), I feel that needs of the civilian practical precision shooter would likely mirror aspects LE sniping and PSR shooting than than it would Mil.

In all fairness, most SWAT and LE Marksman are under trained, under equipped and under funded. When you look at the larger city/county teams, the better federal teams and some of the regional teams the equipment reflects what works. Unless the individual is also a hobbyist and buys who's own equipment and pursues training/competing on his own, then they tend to run what the brung (which isin't much or mordern). I fund and equip federal LE exclusively, and they can barley afford quality gear and are stuck with older products due to outdated regs/rulings by guys who don't know what end the bullet comes out. If the money and will was there, they would be using the best, to include modern tactical optics and not 4x32 acogs.

LE sniping vs Long range shooting / Military sniping / Competing is not really apples vs apples. Your Average LE shot is less than your average 3 Gun shot with an AR & a LPV. But that doesn't mean the features are not beneficial.

[Koshinn]

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/1...-and-reticles/

Roughly half of the best PRS shooters use christmas tree style reticles, the other half use some variant of a mil crosshair (TMR, EBR-1, Mil-R, H2CMR, etc). And of those that use christmas tree style reticles, most seem to be using much simpler versions of them (EBR-2, G2DMR, etc).

[pointblank4445]

In all fairness, most SWAT and LE Marksman are under trained, under equipped and under funded. When you look at the larger city/county teams, the better federal teams and some of the regional teams the equipment reflects what works. Unless the individual is also a hobbyist and buys who's own equipment and pursues training/competing on his own, then they tend to run what the brung (which isin't much or mordern). I fund and equip federal LE exclusively, and they can barley afford quality gear and are stuck with older products due to outdated regs/rulings by guys who don't know what end the bullet comes out. If the money and will was there, they would be using the best, to include modern tactical optics and not 4x32 acogs.

LE sniping vs Long range shooting / Military sniping / Competing is not really apples vs apples. Your Average LE shot is less than your average 3 Gun shot with an AR & a LPV. But that doesn't mean the features are not beneficial.

Mil and LE are the same in that respect...only those that care enough to learn on their own or are the tip of the spear are the one's I would want to take to a competition. I have no shortage of stories of weapon-related assclownery from formerly deployed .mil, but rather than be equally insulting I'll leave it at that. Yep, funding's a problem...which is why many don't have these super high-end optics, and guys can still manage to get the job done. I would say that not enough credit goes to some for being able to get the most out of sub-par gear. This ultimately demonstrates my point that a majority don't realize what they can get out of basic equipment without having to spring for that $5000 optic. The Indian is greater than the arrow...

[B Cart]

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/1...-and-reticles/

Roughly half of the best PRS shooters use christmas tree style reticles, the other half use some variant of a mil crosshair (TMR, EBR-1, Mil-R, H2CMR, etc). And of those that use christmas tree style reticles, most seem to be using much simpler versions of them (EBR-2, G2DMR, etc).

I shoot a lot of long range and compete in the PRS as well as local matches, and i would agree that most of the shooters that are using a christmas tree style reticle use the smaller variations (not full horus reticles). I compete with the Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27 and I prefer the EBR-2C reticle with the smaller, less noticeable christmas tree. It really comes down to personal preference, and I have scopes with and without a christmas tree and see advantages to both.

The one noticeable thing about the PRS and scope preference is that almost everyone runs FFP scopes, and most people (myself included) prefer mil/mil over MOA in PRS type shooting. I think FFP offers big advantages and I don't think i could ever go back to SFP, and using mils instead of MOA seems quicker and easier under time and stress.

I definitely agree that there are technology advances in the modern scopes that increase speed and ability to make hits and quicker miss adjustments, but at the end of the day, shoot what works well for you

[MadAngler1]

I just purchased a Mlok SR25 APC last week and should be in hand shortly. Is there a better optic choice then then NF 2.5-10x42 for this rifle? I already have many CQB type SBRs and other rifles for 0-300 yards with 1-6x optics, etc, etc. For this specific rifle I highly doubt I will be shooting it shorter then 50 and longer then 5-600 ever. I would explore a 1-8x but I did not care for the USO 1-8 I had and sold that off. CQBSS is not in the budget. Would like to try to get 10x and don't want much more. Thought about a Mark 6 for a short amount of time, both in 1-6 and 3-18. Keep getting pushed back to the NF.

Anything else I should consider before jumping on the NF? Or someone with experience with this 2.5-10x42 on a 308 in a short to mid range platform?

Thanks in advance.

I own a NXS 2.5-10x32 amd love it. It sits on top of my 5.56 NATO SPR build and does quite well for anything out to 600 yards as intended.

For a Knights APC, your key question is going to be are you using this in competitions like 3 gun matches or will this be a benchrest gun (or maybe used at a long range shooting class at Gunsite)?

Given your budget, I would take a Kahles 1-6x optic over any Leupold or Trijicon 1-6x for a "run and gun" 3 gun type set up. I have one on my SCAR and love it. I just don't get to shoot it enough because of work. http://www.sportoptics.com/kahles-k1...le-scopes.aspx

For use as a DMR/precision set up, in addition to the 2.5-10x42, I would consider the ATACR 4-16x42 http://www.sportoptics.com/nightforc...e-4-16x42.aspx

You could really unlock the potential of your APC with that scope, and I would again take it over any Leupold product any day (especially the Mark 6 1-6x or 3-18x). I think Nightforce makes a better quality scope than Leupold, period.

[PatrioticDisorder]

I own a NXS 2.5-10x32 amd love it. It sits on top of my 5.56 NATO SPR build and does quite well for anything out to 600 yards as intended.

For a Knights APC, your key question is going to be are you using this in competitions like 3 gun matches or will this be a benchrest gun (or maybe used at a long range shooting class at Gunsite)?

Given your budget, I would take a Kahles 1-6x optic over any Leupold or Trijicon 1-6x for a "run and gun" 3 gun type set up. I have one on my SCAR and love it. I just don't get to shoot it enough because of work. http://www.sportoptics.com/kahles-k1...le-scopes.aspx

For use as a DMR/precision set up, in addition to the 2.5-10x42, I would consider the ATACR 4-16x42 http://www.sportoptics.com/nightforc...e-4-16x42.aspx

You could really unlock the potential of your APC with that scope, and I would again take it over any Leupold product any day (especially the Mark 6 1-6x or 3-18x). I think Nightforce makes a better quality scope than Leupold, period.

I own a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 & K16i and I really like both scopes. God help us all when that Nightforce 1-6/8 hit, assuming it is daylight bright on 1x, that scope I predict will be a smash hit.

[Jwknutson17]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have used the Bushnell elite 1-8.5 and didn't think it was bright enough on 1x to buy one for myself. As it only comes in FFP. As said before.. FFP in low power optics are unusable. Tried many, just not for me. 4 to xx power I exclusively use FFP. But for the price these days on that 1-8.5 optic, it is hard to beat for some. No interest in 3 gun. I will also likely take multiple classes and hunt hogs with this rifle. This SR25 would substitute other rifles for these roles that I already own, but figured why not. I have a few G2 reticles in other Bushnell elite ERS scopes. I love them on my bolt rifles and don't think I would put one on this application. Too much weight and not illuminated for this SR25.

If a NF 1-8 with day bright reticle and .1 mil adjustments and zero stop comes out.. I'm in all day long, and then some.

No time frame on buying one. I can throw an aimpoint comp m4s on it temporally, or one of my extra 1-6 optics for the time being. Or just use irons for that matter. I'm not in a hurry to spend 2k on something I may not want in the long run.

I don't think the ATACR is on the list. I would have to run an offset RDS then, and not 100% sure that's the route I wanna go. Thought about an RMR or T1 offset but now I'm getting into S&B money all said and done.

[Find ManBearPig!]

I don't think the ATACR is on the list. I would have to run an offset RDS then, and not 100% sure that's the route I wanna go. Thought about an RMR or T1 offset but now I'm getting into S&B money all said and done.

I'm in the market right now for a reasonably light, compact, and usable .308 scope myself, though I'm leaning towards the ATACR 4-16 myself, as my plans revolve more around shooting things farther away with precision. The ATACR is not really comparable to any of the 1-X powered optics, IMO. The ATACR is not trying to blend a close quarters optic with a mid range optic, it's just a precision optic, flat out. It's meant to put bullets right where you want them with minimal fuss, not rapidly engage targets up close. Initially, I was trying to compare the ATACR to the high end, Short Dot style optics true 1 power optics, but I eventually realized that that isn't fair to either of them. They are different optics with different purposes. The problem is, and I think both you are I having this issue, is that their is a serious lack of optics that fit "in between", in the spot between ATACR 4-16 and similar scopes, and the true 1 power variables. If Nightforce would just release an updated version of the NXS 2.5-10 x 32, I think that would be perfect, but alas, it does not exist, at least for now.

Personally, I figure that for my own use, I'm more likely to say "Damn, I wish I had a better precision optic" then I am to say "Damn, I wish I had an Aimpoint". So, I'm looking at the ATACR. It sounds like you're in the opposite situation. Either way, I think your plan to wait it out some more is very good one. Hopefully, Nightforce has some awesome 1-8x in the work right now. Vortex also likely has some good stuff in the pipeline currently as well. I've been looking at the Razor Gen II 1-6x and the 3-18x (for 5.56 usage and my planned .308, respectively), and my biggest complaint with both of them is that they're on the porky side, weight wise (the 3-18x weighs nearly 3 pounds!). However, Vortex recently released a new Razor line, the Razor AMG. The first scope in the new line up is essentially their Razor II 4.5-27x, but with slightly better glass, a 30mm tube, and get this, about 20 ounces less weight. I asked Razor if they intend to make updated versions of the other Razor Gen II optics, and while they wouldn't say much, they did tell me they eventually planned to expand the AMG line, which I took as an indication that yes, something like that would happen eventually. I have absolutely no idea when you should expect to see those, but I bet once they do come out, they will be great options as well.