Help me decide on a hard use 1-4

[WS6]

That model is still produced. I have one myself.

If you have never used a scope on your AR, then I would pick-up a Vortex PST 1-4 or Leupold 1-4X variant to try it our first. If the concept of using a magnified optic works for you then pick-up something better down the line.

I think the Vortex PST 1-4X is nice entry-level scope for the money.

If I were considering using a magnified optic for duty use, self-defense, or combat, then the two scopes on my list would be the S&B Short Dot 1-4X CQB 20mm and the Night Force NXS 1-4X with the FC reticle principally because both are known quantities with a record of reliability.

One thing to keep in mind as well is the added weight. A Short Dot and mount could add almost two punds to the weight of the rifle.
My S&B SD 1-4X with an ADM mount is 30.35 Oz.

A post with some weight comparison
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...xplained/page6

I made my first variable a Nightforce 1-4. It's been working well for over a decade, and resale is typically very VERY good.

[JoshNC]

If you're looking at 1-4, I highly recommend the Steiner. At its current price ($699 from EuroOptic), it is an unbeatable optic. Aimpoint bright illumination, outstanding glass, true 1x. I have one and I'm very pleased with it.

If your looking at spending more, and you want a 1-6 the Kahles is unbeatable. Very light, great reticle (SM-1), true 1x, ridiculously large FOV, and Aimpoint bright illumination.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

That model is still produced. I have one myself.

If you have never used a scope on your AR, then I would pick-up a Vortex PST 1-4 or Leupold 1-4X variant to try it our first. If the concept of using a magnified optic works for you then pick-up something better down the line.

I think the Vortex PST 1-4X is nice entry-level scope for the money.

If I were considering using a magnified optic for duty use, self-defense, or combat, then the two scopes on my list would be the S&B Short Dot 1-4X CQB 20mm and the Night Force NXS 1-4X with the FC reticle principally because both are known quantities with a record of reliability.

One thing to keep in mind as well is the added weight. A Short Dot and mount could add almost two punds to the weight of the rifle.
My S&B SD 1-4X with an ADM mount is 30.35 Oz.

A post with some weight comparison
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...xplained/page6

I've used one for several years. I built a Noveske Recce rifle about five years ago and put a TR24 on top.

I really love the NF 1-4, especially with the zero stop turrets but I'm not too sure about no daylight visibility, as I would assume that also means no weapon light visibility. I'm also a little worried that if I end up buying a NF 1-4 a few months later they'll introduce their daylight visible 1-4. Honestly if they left everything alone and made their current 1-4 with zero stop turrets daylight visible that would hands down be my optic.

Edit: it's looking more and more like the Khales is the path I take. I love the reticles. Just with it had external turrets.

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[WS6]

I've used one for several years. I built a Noveske Recce rifle about five years ago and put a TR24 on top.

I really love the NF 1-4, especially with the zero stop turrets but I'm not too sure about no daylight visibility, as I would assume that also means no weapon light visibility. I'm also a little worried that if I end up buying a NF 1-4 a few months later they'll introduce their daylight visible 1-4. Honestly if they left everything alone and made their current 1-4 with zero stop turrets daylight visible that would hands down be my optic.

Edit: it's looking more and more like the Khales is the path I take. I love the reticles. Just with it had external turrets.

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NF's new optic isn't coming out in the "near" future...in my opinion.

I have a NF 1-4 FC-2, and like it. I did a huge write-up on it here.

That said, I just bought a K16i.

[JoshNC]

NF's new optic isn't coming out in the "near" future...in my opinion.

I have a NF 1-4 FC-2, and like it. I did a huge write-up on it here.

That said, I just bought a K16i.

K16i is simply outstanding. In my opinion it is the very best current low power variable option on the market.* I bought the Steiner for use on a 16" Noveske N4 middy because the price was just too good to pass and I don't "need" the 6x magnification for 5.56. But a k16i is definitely in my future for use on a 308. The k16i is also lighter than the Steiner and S&B SD 1.1-4x. With the Kahles k16i and Steiner 1-4 as options, there is no way I would pay the premium for a S&B SD 1.1-4x.

*footnote: The S&B 1-8 SD may end up being the very best. Time will tell. A friend just picked up the S&B 1-8x SD and I have yet to have a chance to look through it. I'm sure it will be awesome, but one could almost buy two k16i for the price of one SD 1-8.

[SkiDevil]

I've used one for several years. I built a Noveske Recce rifle about five years ago and put a TR24 on top.

I really love the NF 1-4, especially with the zero stop turrets but I'm not too sure about no daylight visibility, as I would assume that also means no weapon light visibility. I'm also a little worried that if I end up buying a NF 1-4 a few months later they'll introduce their daylight visible 1-4. Honestly if they left everything alone and made their current 1-4 with zero stop turrets daylight visible that would hands down be my optic.

Edit: it's looking more and more like the Khales is the path I take. I love the reticles. Just with it had external turrets.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think at this point, then it should be a matter of personal preference. If you are using the scope as a general target/ recreation piece it will not matter which model you select.

I can't offer an opinion on the Steiner or Khales, but either the Schmidt and Bender or Night Force optics are extremely rugged, well proven, and combat tested in arduous conditions.

As to the daylight illumination, both the SD 1-4X CQB znd NF 1-4 NXS FC-2 scopes have well designed and visible reticles.
As an example, I typically have my SD set at 2X and rarely use the illumination on the reticle. Some optics are designed for shooting quickly and the reticle design permits snap shots with low-light or dusk conditions (Big game hunters use these scopes for hunting dangerous game like lions, Buffalo, etc.).

What I took most from your OP was the possibility of utilizing the rifle and optic as a duty weapon. For that purpose, I believe that the SD or NF would provide a rugged, reliable, and proven choice.

With a white light, I don't even need the illumination to accurately use the SD in low-light or no ambient lighting. Does the illumination help? Sure it does, but it is not required.

In my opinion, Aimpoint-style illumination is not as critical versus the quality of the optic, glass, and the usability of the reticle. Bang for the buck, I would buy the NF 1-4 NXS with FC-2 reticle and throw a good light on the rifle and then spend the difference on a case or three of match quality 5.56 ammo.

Perhaps, one of our SME's will chime in and offer you some guidance.

[jjackson@tierthreetac]

I'm a big fan of my vortex viper pst 1-4x with moa reticle. In another life in the Marine Corps I went through Scout Sniper Platoon Commander's Course and shot all the Marine Corps sniper systems. They have the best quality glass available and honestly I couldn't tell the difference between a US optics 5k scope and the one I have sitting on my AR. I feel like most folks worry too much about stuff they can't even use. Its like me worrying about the sharpness of my chef's knife when I'm just going to eat a hot pocket anyway lol. I did a write up on the scope and my setup on my site. Hope it helps. http://www.tierthreetactical.com/opt...curacy-vision/

[ccoker]

Take a hard look at the Steiner T5Xi 1-5

[Primus Pilum]

I'm a big fan of my vortex viper pst 1-4x with moa reticle. In another life in the Marine Corps I went through Scout Sniper Platoon Commander's Course and shot all the Marine Corps sniper systems. They have the best quality glass available and honestly I couldn't tell the difference between a US optics 5k scope and the one I have sitting on my AR. I feel like most folks worry too much about stuff they can't even use. Its like me worrying about the sharpness of my chef's knife when I'm just going to eat a hot pocket anyway lol. I did a write up on the scope and my setup on my site. Hope it helps. http://www.tierthreetactical.com/opt...curacy-vision/

If you think the vortex PST has the best glass available then you need to head down to the VA and get your eyes checked. US Optics might have been a reuptable product about 2 decades ago, but the world is a different place today. Neither sniff the crotch of either the S&B's and Premiers used in the SS community over the last 10 years. But you would know that if you actually used them. Not to mention no one reputable in the last 10 years or so would ever advocate MOA, especially if one had such experience in a community that lives by the milradian.

Everyone should sells their Kahles & Shortdots so go pick up a PST made by slave/child labor based on your recommendations. There is apparently no difference between a $450 dollar optic made in the Philippines and those made by the most respected names in optics in Germany, Japan and the USA. Maybe you could a put a call in to the PWS down at Quantico and let the CWO that runs the show know that they got their shit all wrong. Someone who took a 3 week course as part of their entry level training knows better than people who have dedicated their lives to the craft.

[Blindeye_03]

If you think the vortex PST has the best glass available then you need to head down to the VA and get your eyes checked. US Optics might have been a reuptable product about 2 decades ago, but the world is a different place today. Neither sniff the crotch of either the S&B's and Premiers used in the SS community over the last 10 years. But you would know that if you actually used them. Not to mention no one reputable in the last 10 years or so would ever advocate MOA, especially if one had such experience in a community that lives by the milradian.

Everyone should sells their Kahles & Shortdots so go pick up a PST made by slave/child labor based on your recommendations. There is apparently no difference between a $450 dollar optic made in the Philippines and those made by the most respected names in optics in Germany, Japan and the USA. Maybe you could a put a call in to the PWS down at Quantico and let the CWO that runs the show know that they got their shit all wrong. Someone who took a 3 week course as part of their entry level training knows better than people who have dedicated their lives to the craft.

So scopes made by vortex were done so at the hands of slaves and children?

Just making sure I understand what you are saying here...