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Thread: Warsport vs SR15

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    You missed his point. "from those company's existing products". Yes some things like bolts or screws or a sub-assembly may be used by other manufactures but they don't even begin to compare to an AR15 Manufacture.
    Noveske puts the most popular aftermarket accessories on there rifles from other companies existing products like Troy and Magpul. Why wouldn't they?

    Your implying that AR15 manufactures cant be compared to other industries. Everyone on this forum only talks about the things I listed as manufactured by the manufacture (upper, lower, barrel, handguard, trigger, bcg) which is what they focus on and usually emphasize on most in there craftsmanship and quality sales pitch. Which would lead me to think that every other part on the gun was sub contracted out or purchased from a bulk order catalog. Its lean- streamlined manufacturing.

    As far as the price goes, I have said this before and got into a debate but it is called "VALUE PRICING"! They charge what you are willing to pay. No one said it was worth $2700 or had $2700 worth of parts but they have a huge following of people that are willing to pay $2700- and that goes for a lot of gun manufactures and other industries as well.

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    I agree that Noveske is a bit overpriced compared to alternative offerings. I have used their barrels, and the NSR handguards, bought during sales of various kinds, but I've gone elsewhere for BCGs, etc. Yeah, they charge a premium for the name, image, marketing, John's legacy, etc. but if people are willing to pay... well you know the rest.
    BCM is hard to beat for the money/quality/innovation.

  3. #113
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    Warsport vs SR15

    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Noveske puts the most popular aftermarket accessories on there rifles from other companies existing products like Troy and Magpul. Why wouldn't they?
    I think you miss understand how Noveske builds their rifles, the lowers, uppers, BCG, barrels, charging handles, most of the Noveske platform is from other companies who are already selling the same product with a different roll mark. Noveske licenses the EXACT same product that is already on the market. Then add a mark up for their roll mark.

    You could literally build a Noveske rifle with no product marked or from Noveske.
    Last edited by JulyAZ; 03-08-16 at 19:59.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulyAZ View Post
    I think you miss understand how Noveske builds their rifles, the lowers, uppers, BCG, barrels, charging handles, most of the Noveske platform is from other companies who are already selling the same product with a different roll mark. Noveske licenses the EXACT same product that is already on the market. Then add a mark up for their roll mark.

    You could literally build a Noveske rifle with no product marked or from Noveske.
    SHHHH

    Don't let the kiddies know that Santa isin't real, it will ruin the holidays.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Noveske puts the most popular aftermarket accessories on there rifles from other companies existing products like Troy and Magpul. Why wouldn't they?

    Your implying that AR15 manufactures cant be compared to other industries. Everyone on this forum only talks about the things I listed as manufactured by the manufacture (upper, lower, barrel, handguard, trigger, bcg) which is what they focus on and usually emphasize on most in there craftsmanship and quality sales pitch. Which would lead me to think that every other part on the gun was sub contracted out or purchased from a bulk order catalog. Its lean- streamlined manufacturing.

    As far as the price goes, I have said this before and got into a debate but it is called "VALUE PRICING"! They charge what you are willing to pay. No one said it was worth $2700 or had $2700 worth of parts but they have a huge following of people that are willing to pay $2700- and that goes for a lot of gun manufactures and other industries as well.
    The is a huge difference is not only WHO OEM's a part, but WHAT it is speced at and what level of QC there is before the product is accepted.

    COLT, BCM, LMT and even KAC contract out parts, from many of the same forges and small parts manufactures the garbage companies use. The difference is they require a higher quality product within spec and actually QC what they take in to ensure that it meets their standards. Last time I checked KAC was not contracting to magpul or Troy to make their sights, rails, ect. Noveskee makes an overpriced and undervalued parts gun that you could put together for less than half the price and probably end up with a better and more reliable product. There is nothing unique or special about them, unless you get hard for the Iron cross.

    Noveskee could charge $10K for a gun and if Costa ran one of them across his beard in a video, then morons would line up to buy it. Ignorant buyers, nothing more , nothing less. Not a critical thinker among them.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    Noveskee makes an overpriced and undervalued parts gun that you could put together for less than half the price and probably end up with a better and more reliable product.
    Going to have to ask for a citation or proof on Noveske using lower specs and QC than BCM, Colt, etc.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    The is a huge difference is not only WHO OEM's a part, but WHAT it is speced at and what level of QC there is before the product is accepted.

    COLT, BCM, LMT and even KAC contract out parts, from many of the same forges and small parts manufactures the garbage companies use. The difference is they require a higher quality product within spec and actually QC what they take in to ensure that it meets their standards. Last time I checked KAC was not contracting to magpul or Troy to make their sights, rails, ect. Noveskee makes an overpriced and undervalued parts gun that you could put together for less than half the price and probably end up with a better and more reliable product. There is nothing unique or special about them, unless you get hard for the Iron cross.

    Noveskee could charge $10K for a gun and if Costa ran one of them across his beard in a video, then morons would line up to buy it. Ignorant buyers, nothing more , nothing less. Not a critical thinker among them.
    You mean there are guys out there who have a man-crush on Costa? I never would've guessed.

    But yes, post evidence of your claims, sir!

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    Last edited by Boba Fett v2; 03-08-16 at 20:45.
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  8. #118
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    The NSR rail (which SMOS Arms originally manufactured for them exclusively) was an absolute disruptive force in handguards. No other manu had anything close. True innovation from John. A true hard-use item that changed the entire feel / weight / handling of the AR15. Many handguards today are just reruns of the original NSR.
    He also worked with SMOS to design/cut the GEN2 > on lowers which were pretty awesome lowers for their time (heavy as tanks, but had sex appeal).
    They designed the switchblock, which was cool in it's time.
    Their barrels speak for themselves and I've owned and still own a ton. As mentioned, few were offering barrels in those types of contours and performance.
    Other than that, yeah, they're just another assembler that had an awesome founder at the right place and right time in the industry. They had very high QC during the John years as well.
    All that said, I never had the desire to buy a complete Noveske rifle and never did. Barrels and handguards were it. Anymore, manufacturers are getting similar or better performance out of barrels for half the price.
    Fast forward to today and they're unable to innovate because the chief innovation guy is no longer with us, and the other guys that worked with him have left and started their own things up.
    They'll release the Gen3 N6 762 which is long overdue and honestly doesn't excite me much and they'll release MLOK versions of the NSR, which I've seen the design and don't like the aesthetics. SMOS Arms makes a better MLOK NSR IMO. Other than that? Where's the innovation? It's up to you Noveske, surprise us.
    Last edited by Brahmzy; 03-08-16 at 20:48.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    Going to have to ask for a citation or proof on Noveske using lower specs and QC than BCM, Colt, etc.
    Have you not seen the quality post John? The net is littered with examples of poor machining, fit, finish and out of spec products. Lowers sold at an absolute premium that looked like a monkey went to dremel A-school with it. Their QC took a nose dive after john died, its not even debatable. Their innovation also disappeared ALA Steve Jobs. John was the Noveske Brand, all you have now is people trying to cash in on the brand (which to anyone paying attention, aint much anymore). A simple Google search will yield all you need to know. Lots of people late to the party and il-informed will throw cash their way, just like they throw cash to Larue despite his products being a decade obsolete. Don't underestimate the sheeps ability to be swayed by marketing.

    Noveske barrels were never that great anyway. No different than any other pac nor or decent button rifle mass produced barrels. They still don't sniff the ass of quality cut rifle barrels or even some of the high quality button boys like Lija, rock creek or Mullerworks. I built a number of SPR's on Johns barrels and they were no better than the WOA builds except they cost almost 2x as much. People who say they were so great yada yada most likely didn't have a proper context or experience to compare them to other products on the market. If I am paying $400+ for a barrel for an AR, its going to be a Krieger or Barty. It would be foolish otherwise.
    Last edited by Primus Pilum; 03-08-16 at 22:37.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulyAZ View Post
    I think you miss understand how Noveske builds their rifles, the lowers, uppers, BCG, barrels, charging handles, most of the Noveske platform is from other companies who are already selling the same product with a different roll mark. Noveske licenses the EXACT same product that is already on the market. Then add a mark up for their roll mark.

    You could literally build a Noveske rifle with no product marked or from Noveske.
    Then it would not be a Noveske. I understand completely! They buy a part from someone else and ink press there iron cross into it and mark up the resale. - that's actually a business model most businesses use these days. its called retail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    The is a huge difference is not only WHO OEM's a part, but WHAT it is speced at and what level of QC there is before the product is accepted.

    COLT, BCM, LMT and even KAC contract out parts, from many of the same forges and small parts manufactures the garbage companies use. The difference is they require a higher quality product within spec and actually QC what they take in to ensure that it meets their standards. Last time I checked KAC was not contracting to magpul or Troy to make their sights, rails, ect. Noveskee makes an overpriced and undervalued parts gun that you could put together for less than half the price and probably end up with a better and more reliable product. There is nothing unique or special about them, unless you get hard for the Iron cross.
    Ignorant buyers, nothing more , nothing less. Not a critical thinker among them.
    So your saying that OEM small part manufactures have 2 different manufacturing procedures? One with high standards and one with low standards? The low standards get sent to Noveske and the High standards get sent to Colt, BCM and KAC?

    To what I said: Noveske sells a gun with parts that would otherwise be exchanged, upgraded or replaced by the user. Most gun owners replace factory sights, trigger, charging handle, grips, butt stock, flash hider and eventually a barrel. -That's most of the gun. They are building a gun on there upper/lower/barrel/handguard and a combination of quality upper tier parts (preference) from a variety of suppliers- and yes, they put there name in those parts. But it doesn't make them less quality.

    I happen to have both Noveske and KAC
    Attachment 38222

    The difference between where the upper receiver meets the hand guard is visible: personally, I think Noveske made a nice seamless transition between the two.
    Attachment 38223 Attachment 38224

    The ambidextrous controls on the KAC are nice, but doesn't matter to me because I am right handed.
    Attachment 38225 Attachment 38226

    I was never comparing the 2 companies side by side, they are 2 different companies who manufacture 2 different guns that shoot the same 556.
    I don't know why people say Noveske's QC went down hill. The statements I have read were that Noveske parts didn't just slap together, I don't think noveske built a gun to be thrown together. It took me over 30 minutes of tightening and loosening the barrel nut to get the proper timing to get the rail attached. Noveske also stakes there castle nuts, where as KAC does not. I also found the fit of a noveske to be solid as well with KAC. Regardless, LWRC, Noveske, KAC, ADCOR, PWS, USM4 and Barrett are for consumers that have a few thousand to spend where as Colt, FN, BCM are for smaller budget consumers- nothing wrong with that. But if your going to charge upwards of $3000 for a DI gun, you have to have a reason. I think your not giving Noveske any credit. They have good guns with good quality parts regardless if they are being sold somewhere else for less without a Noveske logo.

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