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Thread: Warsport vs SR15

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin 795 View Post
    Did anybody else appreciate that a dude named "Tater Tot" is whining about the professionality of a name and how it ties to your credibility?
    At no point have I ever done business using my nickname. This is an Internet forum where I chose not to use my name or title..

    Sent from my old crappy phone

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Snip
    Wow what a logic leap. In now way shape or form did I say they are specing lower quality parts. Companies like Bushmaster, Remington, DPMS, PSA, ect are.

    Their products have always solid higher than their value. Now they sell at an even higher price with absolutely no features or function that set it apart from a $800 colt rifle other than a rail and a middy gas system. Noveske brings nothing to the table, other than an overpriced rollmark. Nothing. I will argue that a combination of their manufacturing process and QC went to the shitter after John died. Some of the stuff I have seen in recent years would have NEVER left the factory under John's supervision.

    Those names you mentioned don't belong in the same sentence with KAC. They are superior in every way, and many times are a much better value with more functionality not to mention a track record of excellence. Your 2 samples mean nothing when both companies have sold thousands of products.

    Please tell me what justifies noveske's pricing? On a basic model or even their flagship. What do they bring to the table? . Please be specific.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulyAZ View Post
    I think you miss understand how Noveske builds their rifles, the lowers, uppers, BCG, barrels, charging handles, most of the Noveske platform is from other companies who are already selling the same product with a different roll mark. Noveske licenses the EXACT same product that is already on the market. Then add a mark up for their roll mark.

    You could literally build a Noveske rifle with no product marked or from Noveske.
    To be fair, Noveske did at one time spec things slightly differently. Little bitty bitty things, but things that added up. Just like BCM does with their uppers. It's not all JUST name, or at least it didn't used to be, but one must ask...do you WANT the little tweaks to tolerances, etc? Is it worth $700? John and Joel spec'ed out some neat little Easter-eggs that did indeed help the platform, I think. I'm not trying to be a Noveske apologist, but I think they do deserve a fair shake, too.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    Wow what a logic leap. In now way shape or form did I say they are specing lower quality parts. Companies like Bushmaster, Remington, DPMS, PSA, ect are.

    Their products have always solid higher than their value. Now they sell at an even higher price with absolutely no features or function that set it apart from a $800 colt rifle other than a rail and a middy gas system. Noveske brings nothing to the table, other than an overpriced rollmark. Nothing. I will argue that a combination of their manufacturing process and QC went to the shitter after John died. Some of the stuff I have seen in recent years would have NEVER left the factory under John's supervision.

    Those names you mentioned don't belong in the same sentence with KAC. They are superior in every way, and many times are a much better value with more functionality not to mention a track record of excellence. Your 2 samples mean nothing when both companies have sold thousands of products.

    Please tell me what justifies noveske's pricing? On a basic model or even their flagship. What do they bring to the table? . Please be specific.
    To be fair, I got an out of spec factory SBR lower that Daniel Defense could not find an upper to fit (they tried half a dozen), and an upper that gouged brass so bad it malfunctioned constantly, and had an 8 MOA POI shift from suppressed to unsuppressed. John hand-signed the certificate.

    Noveske did take care of me, and I am 100% happy with the resolution, but I question how much of "their quality has gone to crap" was only the failure of hero-worship when John died. My experience, sadly, was that the quality was always iffy. However, I do believe it got worse.

  5. #125
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    In before the fit & finish crowd attempts to explain how Noveske's receivers justify the price of admission...

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    To be fair, I got an out of spec factory SBR lower that Daniel Defense could not find an upper to fit (they tried half a dozen), and an upper that gouged brass so bad it malfunctioned constantly, and had an 8 MOA POI shift from suppressed to unsuppressed. John hand-signed the certificate.

    Noveske did take care of me, and I am 100% happy with the resolution, but I question how much of "their quality has gone to crap" was only the failure of hero-worship when John died. My experience, sadly, was that the quality was always iffy. However, I do believe it got worse.
    Fair enough. I'm not exactly the biggest DD champion either. They make good products, I just don't see any value over BCM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    Please tell me what justifies noveske's pricing? On a basic model or even their flagship. What do they bring to the table? . Please be specific.
    Lets build one real quick: In fact, lets build this one. $2505.00 +tax
    Attachment 38227

    I added parts to my cart to get a quick price- excluded tax and shipping $1143.34
    Attachment 38228
    includes:
    Magpul stock
    Magpul grip
    KX3 flash suppressor
    RCA black nitride BCG
    Raptor ambi charging handle
    Noveske Takedown/pivot pin
    Noveske NSR 9" rail
    Noveske 10.5 Lo-Pro gas block barrel

    The Gen III is currently unavailable but here is a screen shot with price: $610.00
    Attachment 38229

    Here are the Noveske marked Troy flip up sights that are currently unavailable $225.00 (the screenshot is the front $99)
    Attachment 38230

    And here is a ALG ACT trigger $69.00
    Attachment 38231

    so far we have spent $1921.34 not including tax or shipping.
    We still need an upper/lower parts kit from Continental Machine & Tool, buffer tube, buffer and spring, endplate and castle nut $180

    Sub Total $2225.34
    Tax (texas) $183
    Total $2408.34
    Shipping (per Noveske) $178 (2nd day air)
    Grand total $2586.34 and we have to assemble it ourselves

    I don't need to justify why I spent $2500 on a Noveske or 4 of them for that matter. I don't need to justify why I spent $2400 on a KAC either. I like both. I like the details in the in the Noveske, seamless transitional body lines with almost hexagonal upper receiver, machined relieves around bolt catch and magazine release, integrated mag well, stainless steel barrel. I like those things found in a Noveske.
    Last edited by elephant; 03-08-16 at 23:57.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus Pilum View Post
    Fair enough. I'm not exactly the biggest DD champion either. They make good products, I just don't see any value over BCM.
    It's not DD's fault Noveske sent me an out of spec rifle. DD was nice enough to QA/QC Noveske's lower...props to them. Noveske agreed it was out of spec when they got it. I had asked DD to hand-pick an upper to fit it. THey didn't have anything that would fit.

  9. #129
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    Warsport vs SR15

    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Lets build one real quick: In fact, lets build this one. $2505.00 +tax
    Attachment 38227

    I added parts to my cart to get a quick price- excluded tax and shipping $1143.34
    Attachment 38228
    includes:
    Magpul stock
    Magpul grip
    KX3 flash suppressor
    RCA black nitride BCG
    Raptor ambi charging handle
    Noveske Takedown/pivot pin
    Noveske NSR 9" rail
    Noveske 10.5 Lo-Pro gas block barrel

    The Gen III is currently unavailable but here is a screen shot with price: $610.00
    Attachment 38229

    Here are the Noveske marked Troy flip up sights that are currently unavailable $225.00 (the screenshot is the front $99)
    Attachment 38230

    And here is a ALG ACT trigger $69.00
    Attachment 38231

    so far we have spent $1921.34 not including tax or shipping.
    We still need an upper/lower parts kit from Continental Machine & Tool, buffer tube, buffer and spring, endplate and castle nut $180

    Sub Total $2225.34
    Tax (texas) $183
    Total $2408.34
    Shipping (per Noveske) $178 (2nd day air)
    Grand total $2586.34 and we have to assemble it ourselves

    I don't need to justify why I spent $2500 on a Noveske or 4 of them for that matter. I don't need to justify why I spent $2400 on a KAC either. I like both. I like the details in the in the Noveske, seamless transitional body lines with almost hexagonal upper receiver, machined relieves around bolt catch and magazine release, integrated mag well, stainless steel barrel. I like those things found in a Noveske.
    Use the SMOS receiver set-save $200 for the same thing.
    http://www.smosarms.com/collections/...y-receiver-set

    I only have check that figured it was a good starting/stopping point to prove my point. Then once you have the parts it take 30 mins to put rifle together if you're going slow.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by elephant View Post
    Lets build one real quick: In fact, lets build this one. $2505.00 +tax
    Attachment 38227

    I added parts to my cart to get a quick price- excluded tax and shipping $1143.34
    Attachment 38228
    includes:
    Magpul stock
    Magpul grip
    KX3 flash suppressor
    RCA black nitride BCG
    Raptor ambi charging handle
    Noveske Takedown/pivot pin
    Noveske NSR 9" rail
    Noveske 10.5 Lo-Pro gas block barrel

    The Gen III is currently unavailable but here is a screen shot with price: $610.00
    Attachment 38229

    Here are the Noveske marked Troy flip up sights that are currently unavailable $225.00 (the screenshot is the front $99)
    Attachment 38230

    And here is a ALG ACT trigger $69.00
    Attachment 38231

    so far we have spent $1921.34 not including tax or shipping.
    We still need an upper/lower parts kit from Continental Machine & Tool, buffer tube, buffer and spring, endplate and castle nut $180

    Sub Total $2225.34
    Tax (texas) $183
    Total $2408.34
    Shipping (per Noveske) $178 (2nd day air)
    Grand total $2586.34 and we have to assemble it ourselves

    I don't need to justify why I spent $2500 on a Noveske or 4 of them for that matter. I don't need to justify why I spent $2400 on a KAC either. I like both. I like the details in the in the Noveske, seamless transitional body lines with almost hexagonal upper receiver, machined relieves around bolt catch and magazine release, integrated mag well, stainless steel barrel. I like those things found in a Noveske.
    Here is the same upper and lower, for $400:
    http://www.smosarms.com/collections/...y-receiver-set

    I wouldn't touch RCA with a 10-foot pole after buying multiple RCA BCG's and having the lugs peen, the headspacing tight, and getting crap CS from Chris. I believe at one time he even hand-wrote a "sell it to someone else if you don't like it" note in a customer's return when he sent it back to them. A great alternative is the Azimuth BCG, which I found to be better machined, and made by people who aren't dicks (*H&M metal processing is run by good people. RCA is just kindof their stepchild).
    http://www.tracearmory.com/collectio...-carrier-group
    Take another $75 off the price...

    Now, I don't like Noveske's barrels, and wouldn't run one. However, YOU might feel differently, so I can't really argue the barrel, but I could save some money there, and I bet the product would be AT LEAST as good.

    So far, I have lopped off about $300. I could continue with the rail, barrel, and other things, but you could argue "But I WANT those", and it's "your rifle", so I couldn't much argue the point, there.

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