Dangerous Precedent: Paramedics to no longer wait and stage during active-shooter

[Uni-Vibe]

Houston EMT still waits for the all-clear from the Lawmen before approaching me if I'm bleeding to death on the street.

That's their policy and it's been testified to in court.

[Hmac]

Houston EMT still waits for the all-clear from the Lawmen before approaching me if I'm bleeding to death on the street.

That's their policy and it's been testified to in court.

That's the reality, and is as it should be. Street Paramedics don't belong inside the inner perimeter.

[Uni-Vibe]

That's the reality, and is as it should be. Street Paramedics don't belong inside the inner perimeter.

Yeah, but we consider such first responders as "Heroes," and they accept the benefits of that consideration. There's something wrong when such sit in an air-conditioned ambulance whilst crime victims bleed to death before their eyes on the sidewalk.

Not trying to start a fight, but . . . .

[Hmac]

Everybody needs to stick to the job that theyre trained and equipped for. There's nothing wrong with EMTs sitting in an air conditioned ambulance while they wait to do their job after the cops are done doing theirs. Step outside those lanes and more people end up getting hurt unnecessarily.


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[acjones20]

I'm an EMS medical director. Our policy is to let Police clear ANY scene where there has been interpersonal violence. I'm not going to tell one of my guy's wife that her husband died because we sent him into a scene where there was a KNOWN assailant. We need to let LEO do their job first. They can place tourniquets. It's not that hard. It's easy to get emotional about "innocent people bleeding out on the street", but the reality is that the lion's share of these incidents involve drugs/gangs/etc. It's not people on their way to Bible study getting gunned down.

[medicman29]

I'm an EMS medical director. Our policy is to let Police clear ANY scene where there has been interpersonal violence. I'm not going to tell one of my guy's wife that her husband died because we sent him into a scene where there was a KNOWN assailant. We need to let LEO do their job first. They can place tourniquets. It's not that hard. It's easy to get emotional about "innocent people bleeding out on the street", but the reality is that the lion's share of these incidents involve drugs/gangs/etc. It's not people on their way to Bible study getting gunned down.

I agree completely. My agency agency (Fire/EMS) is in the process of instituting SOG's stating we will enter the warm zone without the benefit of a police escort, even when the building has not been fully cleared, which to my thinking makes it still the hot zone. I was a SWAT medic, and have not intention of entering an active shooter situation without the benefit of armor and a firearm. I'll eat a write up before I enter an active shooter situation without police escort, or force my people to do the same thing.

[ST911]

I agree completely. My agency agency (Fire/EMS) is in the process of instituting SOG's stating we will enter the warm zone without the benefit of a police escort, even when the building has not been fully cleared, which to my thinking makes it still the hot zone. I was a SWAT medic, and have not intention of entering an active shooter situation without the benefit of armor and a firearm. I'll eat a write up before I enter an active shooter situation without police escort, or force my people to do the same thing.

Ask your higher what model guidelines or whose precedent you're basing your program on. The best practices, or at least minimally credible examples I am aware of include at least patrol-level escort of EMS teams performing extraction or CCP ops in warm zones.

[medicman29]

Ask your higher what model guidelines or whose precedent you're basing your program on. The best practices, or at least minimally credible examples I am aware of include at least patrol-level escort of EMS teams performing extraction or CCP ops in warm zones.

I think that there is some pushback in that direction, but that's certainly something I will bring up in the next ops meeting.

[T2C]

I agree completely. My agency agency (Fire/EMS) is in the process of instituting SOG's stating we will enter the warm zone without the benefit of a police escort, even when the building has not been fully cleared, which to my thinking makes it still the hot zone. I was a SWAT medic, and have not intention of entering an active shooter situation without the benefit of armor and a firearm. I'll eat a write up before I enter an active shooter situation without police escort, or force my people to do the same thing.

I agree. To take EMS personnel into a hot zone without urgent necessity and proper cover is irresponsible and inviting disaster. If we get EMS personnel killed due to not taking appropriate measures based on Critical Incident Response protocol, we are denying others the benefit of field medical response. You cannot save everyone in a mass casualty incident. Sacrificing one to save five is a concept many in the civilian world are not willing to accept. Military personnel have been dealing with this concept for decades. It's a tough call, but the right call.

Television programming and the news media have adversely affected many of us and in some cases the ability of a field supervisor to make tactically sound decisions during a Critical Incident. Make the right decision and live with the decision. That is one of the tougher aspects of the burden of command.

[Bluedreaux]

Devil's Advocate....The same argument could be used in the other direction. Risking one life (the paramedic) to save five is the right thing to do. It's a tough call that many in the EMS world aren't ready to deal with.