In defense of the PGO shotgun

[Shao]

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else... if it has, I must be a searchtard this morning.

I may be labeled a heretic for posting this, but I miss my PGO 870. With a Hogue Tamer on my 18" 870, I could shoot 3" slugs and buck all day with absolutely no pain or hand fatigue. After realizing how much fun long-distance smooth-bore slug gunning can be (and extreme peer pressure from my brother), I added a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock.

What I've discovered is that my right arm acts as a far better recoil absorber than my shoulder/chest. Since the 870 in question has rifle sights, I can appreciate the stock for longer range shots, but at the end of the day, I can definitely feel the difference. No matter what kind of recoil pad is on my gun or what I'm wearing, shooting high-power loads for extended periods of time with a stock beats my shoulder up.

I keep reading on the internet about how "you'd better keep it away from your face or you'll get a black eye" - or "load up on re-freezable ice-packs because you're gonna need them"... Maybe it was just the Hogue, but I could shoot all day using a high hold PGO stance and be none the worse for wear.

I find myself holding my Urbino stock the same way as I would a PGO for close quarters shooting more often, completely disregarding the stock section unless I need to reach out with a slug.

Am I just a heaping pile of female reproductive organs with baby skin covering my torso, or has anyone else found this to be true as well?

[zonerA1]

My take on pistol grip shotguns.... they look cool, are short and handy, but while you are telling us you can shoot it all day without discomfort that is not an issue of concern for me. Hitting my intended target in a life and death situation is. Measure the longest distance in your house that a shotgun could be used for self defense. Then take your choice of loads to the range, set up a man sized target at that longest distance. Can you make a center mass hit EVERY time with your pistol grip snotty? I can with a 13"lop buttstock....and that is what matters to me in reference to home self defense with a shotgun. I'd rather bet my life on something I know works than something that looks cool.....Mike

[Shao]

My take on pistol grip shotguns.... they look cool, are short and handy, but while you are telling us you can shoot it all day without discomfort that is not an issue of concern for me. Hitting my intended target in a life and death situation is. Measure the longest distance in your house that a shotgun could be used for self defense. Then take your choice of loads to the range, set up a man sized target at that longest distance. Can you make a center mass hit EVERY time with your pistol grip snotty? I can with a 13"lop buttstock....and that is what matters to me in reference to home self defense with a shotgun. I'd rather bet my life on something I know works than something that looks cool.....Mike

Within household distances, definitely. I don't think that they look cool - on the contrary, I prefer the look of a shotgun with a real stock. I like the option of being able to use a stock, but for close-range work, the PGO configuration seems to work just as well for me, better even.

Anyway, you failed to address why I posted this in the first place - am I a freak of nature or does anyone else find firing a PGO more comfortable than a stocked shotgun?

[Mrgunsngear]

My take on pistol grip shotguns.... they look cool, are short and handy, but while you are telling us you can shoot it all day without discomfort that is not an issue of concern for me. Hitting my intended target in a life and death situation is. Measure the longest distance in your house that a shotgun could be used for self defense. Then take your choice of loads to the range, set up a man sized target at that longest distance. Can you make a center mass hit EVERY time with your pistol grip snotty? I can with a 13"lop buttstock....and that is what matters to me in reference to home self defense with a shotgun. I'd rather bet my life on something I know works than something that looks cool.....Mike

I agree with this. Add in stress, low light, and movement and I simply wouldn't be comfortable taking those shots without a stock. Maybe a better way to say it is I'd feel A LOT better taking them with a stock.

[WillBrink]

It's interesting to note OP as you said, first time I fired a PG shotgun I was surprised by the lack of perceived recoil. I was prepared for something different. I even asked the owner if they were full load 12g due to the light recoil, and they were standard 12g 00 buck. I can't comment on the tactical utility, but totally agree on the difference in perceived recoil. I suppose like anything, if one practiced enough with that set up, it would be an effective choice of HD, but seems no my non-BTDT knowledge, wide offerings in 5.56 have made the shot gun all but obsolete.

[26 Inf]

It's interesting to note OP as you said, first time I fired a PG shotgun I was surprised by the lack of perceived recoil. I was prepared for something different. I even asked the owner if they were full load 12g due to the light recoil, and they were standard 12g 00 buck. I can't comment on the tactical utility, but totally agree on the difference in perceived recoil. I suppose like anything, if one practiced enough with that set up, it would be an effective choice of HD, but seems no my non-BTDT knowledge, wide offerings in 5.56 have made the shot gun all but obsolete.

There is a lot of 'shock absorption' in the movement of your elbow, shoulders and wrist. You can allow your shoulder to relax and give/move back because the pistol grip is not contacting your shoulder. If you try that with a stock, the running jump you give the stock slamming into your shoulder will put the hurtus on you. We have a game called Bragging Rights Slugs which is shot one hand a la bullseye stance at 50 yards with standard police grade 870's. The secret is to let your shoulder collapse.

Shooting a lot of duty loads, slugs or buck, I focus on forward pressure on the forearm and rearward pressure with the master grip pulling the stock firmly into the shoulder. Most of the recoil seems to die in the isometric tension between the two hands.

You also need to focus on stance - slight bend at the knees and waist, curled forward a little, feet shoulder width and toes pointed to the target, I know this sounds like a fairy tail but a good stance seems to allow recoil to flow through your body to the ground. Of course, when shooting on the move, or engaging multiples, most people do not perceive the recoil at the forefront of their consciousness.

JMO

[brushy bill]

This is a uniquely relevant thread because shockwave is offering a birds head type pistol grip that when employed with a 14" barrel and a "virgin" receiver can be owned without a stamp (according to information on their site) because it is over a 26.5 inch overall length. Here is a link for the mossberg http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 but they offer Remington products as well. They present the ATF letters on the site, but some insist this is not legal. I am not a lawyer and don't know, but if this is legitimate, it would be a pretty handy set up if the concept is relevant (purpose of this thread).

[WillBrink]

There is a lot of 'shock absorption' in the movement of your elbow, shoulders and wrist. You can allow your shoulder to relax and give/move back because the pistol grip is not contacting your shoulder. If you try that with a stock, the running jump you give the stock slamming into your shoulder will put the hurtus on you. We have a game called Bragging Rights Slugs which is shot one hand a la bullseye stance at 50 yards with standard police grade 870's. The secret is to let your shoulder collapse.

Shooting a lot of duty loads, slugs or buck, I focus on forward pressure on the forearm and rearward pressure with the master grip pulling the stock firmly into the shoulder. Most of the recoil seems to die in the isometric tension between the two hands.

You also need to focus on stance - slight bend at the knees and waist, curled forward a little, feet shoulder width and toes pointed to the target, I know this sounds like a fairy tail but a good stance seems to allow recoil to flow through your body to the ground. Of course, when shooting on the move, or engaging multiples, most people do not perceive the recoil at the forefront of their consciousness.

JMO

I was expecting it to by hard on the wrist and hand, but as you say, the shock is transmitted away.

[jbjh]

This is a uniquely relevant thread because shockwave is offering a birds head type pistol grip that when employed with a 14" barrel and a "virgin" receiver can be owned without a stamp (according to information on their site) because it is over a 26.5 inch overall length. Here is a link for the mossberg http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 but they offer Remington products as well. They present the ATF letters on the site, but some insist this is not legal. I am not a lawyer and don't know, but if this is legitimate, it would be a pretty handy set up if the concept is relevant (purpose of this thread).

Instead of SBS, this is an AOW (any other weapon). Different States have their own laws regarding them, but BATF is a $5 stamp, instead of the $200 (or that used to be the case), because there is no modification or converting being done. Savage makes/made virgin receivers so you could build bolt-action pistols without the SBR stamp.

[Tzook]

Instead of SBS, this is an AOW (any other weapon). Different States have their own laws regarding them, but BATF is a $5 stamp, instead of the $200 (or that used to be the case), because there is no modification or converting being done. Savage makes/made virgin receivers so you could build bolt-action pistols without the SBR stamp.

So the post on their website is incorrect? You do still need to go through the AOW process for this to be legal?