9mil pseudo-subguns: Kriss versus MP5

[MountainRaven]

So I ended up selling my Zenith late last year. Turns out the niche that I wanted it to fill last year still exists and I still want it filled, so now I'm looking at buying a new pistol to SBR.

Easy button answer is to buy another MKE. It worked, I liked it, I never should have sold it.

But there's a new challenger: The 9mm Kriss. The chief benefits are these: The gun is less expensive ($1300 versus $1700), the magazines are less expensive, available from a variety of reputable manufacturers in a variety of capacities (Glock OEM 17- & 33-round, ETS 17-, 22-, & 31-round, and Magpul 17-rounders with 21- & 27-rounders due this summer) and I already have a bunch of them, and the post-Form 1 conversion process is less expensive ($260 for a B&T for the MP5 versus $100 for the Gen1 Kriss folding stock, which also works on the Gen2 guns, including the 9mm) - although the Kriss stock is probably going to be slightly more difficult to install than the MP5 stock. And, of course, I can keep the gun as a pistol with the Kriss side-folding brace.

It goes without saying that there are actually quite a few other options out there, now, some of which aren't actually that bad. I don't dislike the CZ Scorpion, for instance, but I certainly don't like it nearly as much as I like the MP5. The SiG MPX I dislike more than the CZ, although it is tempting with the folding brace - but that's still something that can be done with the Kriss. Finally, there is the Wilson - which is a Wilson - and thus both expensive and it's going to be a wait and with the full-on AR-15 architecture, cannot fit into the same size space as any of the other options I've listed - and since space is a key component of my mission for this firearm, it is thus eliminated along with all other AR-15-based 9mm pseudo-subguns (I want it to fit in my weekend bag - c. 22" OAL).

I'm interested in hearing anybody's thoughts on the relative merits of the MKE and the Kriss. And if you have any thoughts that I haven't mentioned, I'd be interested in hearing them, too.

Recap:
Most important aspects:
9mm "pistol"/pseudo-subgun
OAL ≤ 22" (in pistol configuration, with stock/brace collapsed/folded)
Ease of conversion to SBR, post Form 1 (with the MP5/MKE being pretty much the gold standard)
Ease of mounting a flashlight (standards being SureFire 328/628 on the MP5 or Inforce WML on a rail on the Kriss or an MP5K with a Dakota Tactical MLOK or Keymod handguard)

Thanks!

[KalashniKEV]

Recap:
Most important aspects:
9mm "pistol"/pseudo-subgun
OAL ≤ 22" (in pistol configuration, with stock/brace collapsed/folded)
Ease of conversion to SBR, post Form 1 (with the MP5/MKE being pretty much the gold standard)
Ease of mounting a flashlight (standards being SureFire 328/628 on the MP5 or Inforce WML on a rail on the Kriss or an MP5K with a Dakota Tactical MLOK or Keymod handguard)

Thanks!

I think you answered your own question.

[MountainRaven]

I think you answered your own question.

I just want to hear someone say that it's a bad idea/the Kriss is "more better" and give supporting evidence... if they can.

(And I'm beginning to think that nobody will. Although at least two people seem to think that neither one is the answer.)

[teutonicpolymer]

B&T TP9 and APC9 also exist. I kind of hope they make a carbine 16" barrel length APC9 in addition to the APC 5.56 for the US market. I was initially against the price but the idea of them has grown on me.

JP has been making 9mm AR's for a while, and there are various other 9mm AR15's out there. It is also possible to do your own build.

There is the kel tec sub 2k but they are not easy to find.

I'd like the MPX much more if the carbine didn't have such a ridiculously fat handguard. It is totally unsuited to it.

There are also various 9mm AK's being made or starting to be made.

[Auto-X Fil]

I have a KRISS. It sucks. The Scorpion and MPX are way better. The recoil thing is neat on paper, but the gun has wonky ergos and is a pain to strip.

[w3453l]

If it were me I'd get the CZ, reason being that it looks to be a decent gun with a growing after market. On top of that it's very affordable for the time being.

However if I were you I would get the MKE. If you liked it, and don't care so much for the CZ then there's no sense in settling for less. I can't say good or bad about the Kriss, but you just don't hear much about them. This doesn't mean they're bad, but it could be an indicator of something.

You might want to wait for the SP5k to come, if having an actual HK mp5 type means anything to you.

[MountainRaven]

B&T TP9 and APC9 also exist. I kind of hope they make a carbine 16" barrel length APC9 in addition to the APC 5.56 for the US market. I was initially against the price but the idea of them has grown on me.

JP has been making 9mm AR's for a while, and there are various other 9mm AR15's out there. It is also possible to do your own build.

There is the kel tec sub 2k but they are not easy to find.

I'd like the MPX much more if the carbine didn't have such a ridiculously fat handguard. It is totally unsuited to it.

There are also various 9mm AK's being made or starting to be made.

By the numbers:

B&T APC9: Not sure I want to spend $2,200 on the gun...
B&T TP9: ...and if I'm not happy about spending $40 on MP5 magazines, I'm really not happy about spending $70 on them.
JP GMR-13: OAL.
Kel-Tec Sub2000: "Kel-Tec".
SiG MPX: I actually don't dislike the carbine, but I'm not hugely fond of the pistol. But then we run into the magazines again. And were I to do a SiG, I'd probably do an MCX pistol in 300 BLK.
AKX-9, &c.: Pretty sure we're running into OAL issues again. And given that they're based on AKs, ease of converting to an SBR is not going to be fantastic.

If it were me I'd get the CZ, reason being that it looks to be a decent gun with a growing after market. On top of that it's very affordable for the time being.

However if I were you I would get the MKE. If you liked it, and don't care so much for the CZ then there's no sense in settling for less. I can't say good or bad about the Kriss, but you just don't hear much about them. This doesn't mean they're bad, but it could be an indicator of something.

You might want to wait for the SP5k to come, if having an actual HK mp5 type means anything to you.

I'd rather have the German gun than the Turkish gun, but waiting for the SP5k might be a long wait for a train that doesn't come. Not to mention pricing... I'd be surprised if the H&K was anything but more expensive than the MKE. And then there's the open question of what will be on the end of the SP5K's barrel. At least the MKE can be had with a tri-lug.

[WatchTheWorldBern]

Do you have a tri lug suppressor? Is suppression something you're thinking about for all of these?

[teutonicpolymer]

By the numbers:

B&T APC9: Not sure I want to spend $2,200 on the gun...
B&T TP9: ...and if I'm not happy about spending $40 on MP5 magazines, I'm really not happy about spending $70 on them.
JP GMR-13: OAL.
Kel-Tec Sub2000: "Kel-Tec".
SiG MPX: I actually don't dislike the carbine, but I'm not hugely fond of the pistol. But then we run into the magazines again. And were I to do a SiG, I'd probably do an MCX pistol in 300 BLK.
AKX-9, &c.: Pretty sure we're running into OAL issues again. And given that they're based on AKs, ease of converting to an SBR is not going to be fantastic.



I'd rather have the German gun than the Turkish gun, but waiting for the SP5k might be a long wait for a train that doesn't come. Not to mention pricing... I'd be surprised if the H&K was anything but more expensive than the MKE. And then there's the open question of what will be on the end of the SP5K's barrel. At least the MKE can be had with a tri-lug.

You're either looking for something that isn't available or you already know what you want then

The 9mm AK's shouldn't have overall length issues though. They have folding stocks if you buy the extended barrel version, or I believe at least Kalash USA is doing the pistol with the folding stock trunion already there.

The 9mm AR's have the advantage of the tax stamp being on the lower, plus you can probably get a folding adapter for the stock (just can't shoot it folded but who does that anyways)

[MountainRaven]

You're either looking for something that isn't available or you already know what you want then

The 9mm AK's shouldn't have overall length issues though. They have folding stocks if you buy the extended barrel version, or I believe at least Kalash USA is doing the pistol with the folding stock trunion already there.

The 9mm AR's have the advantage of the tax stamp being on the lower, plus you can probably get a folding adapter for the stock (just can't shoot it folded but who does that anyways)

The Definitive Arms AKX-9 has been well received, but has a barrel some four inches longer than the MP5, which hovers just under the max OAL for my needs/desires - so the AKX-9 will be longer than the max OAL.

Kalashnikov USA is an unknown quantity, and I'm not sure that they have even started shipping any of their US-made guns yet.