question on 338 lapua reloading

[dan68]

hi and thanks in advance, to hopefully make a long story short, currently have a savage 110 in 338 and have never had an issue reloading for it. recently bought a Christianson arms and cannot reuse any brass that has been shot from it due to the bolt not ejecting them. New brass is ok until after about the 3rd reload. All being full length resized with rcbs dies. bought a redding fl sizer but cant get it to bump the shoulder back thinking that was the problem. the more I reload a cartridge the tighter things get including even chambering. Do I need a body die? Also the trigger pull is terrible. Is there a way to adjust? Its a timiney trigger I believe. again thanks for any help!

[wilson1911]

What press are you using to load on ? Are you contacting the shell plate in some way ? If you have a FL die, you should be able to bump the shoulder back 2 thou and not have bolt lift.

Do you have a way of measuring the shoulder bump ? Do you use a comparator gauge ?

I resize with a redding FL sizer. I shoulder bump 2 thou, which is measured with a forster datum dial. Is your redding die a bushing die ?

Your savage brass will be blown out from a looser chamber, which will make the fired brass not want to come back out....literally having to beat the bolt down to get them out. If you are not annealing, you brass will be work hardened also.

When you say not ejecting them....do you mean they will not come out of the chamber ? hard to get the bolt back, but come out ? or ejector does not grab anything ?

What brass are you running ?

I run lapua brass.... 300gr smk over 89 grains of retumbo, 30 thou off. Brass is neck turned also.

[dan68]

Using a dillon 550 press. Started out with my normal rcbs fls dies. Again never an issue with the savage and always neck sized. Went to the CA and same everything and encountered the issues. I have the hornady comparator to ck shoulder bump. Was told on the rcbs dies to take .005 off the face and still the same issue. Even did it to the new redding and with both fully touching the shell holder. Checked the shoulder of a new brass (always lapua brass) and was able to bump the shoulder to factory specs which was about .011. Same issue and having to tap the bolt back to eject. Bolt lift is fine. Redding die is a bushing die. Maybe from the savage loose chamber I can't use in the CA? Load is retumbo 94 gr fed 215 primer .050 off lands. Still new and trying to find a good load and don't want to continue until I find a solution to the main issue. Bolt lifts ok at first and gets stiffer with every reload but always takes a rubber mallot to slide back for eject. Have not been annealing necks, just working with three cases to find a decent load to start with. Thanks for the help by the way!
Dan

[wilson1911]

Ok I know what your problem is......its the dillon 550. I reload on one also. If you take a few thou off the bottom of the die, it will still make contact with the shell plate. The shell plate will contact on the very inside, which is hard to see. The press will feel as if you are getting a good stroke, but you are not. I used a dremel to hog out the shell holder so my die would fit in the cutout. Your shoulder bump will not be consistent if you do not do this. I know they say it will work, but it does not......maybe with there dies, but not my redding S dies. If you want to load 338 on a dillon, get on amazon and there is a guy who makes a single stage conversion kit. It comes with a machined head and a new base, just have to get a shell holder.

I setup my die and looked all around and finally saw it. I first did the same thing you did....no joy tho. If you raise the ram.... go up to where you can see the shell plate and watch for a tiny bit of movement. If the plate moves at all its touching on the very inside. I had to get a flashlight to see it also.

http://www.amazon.com/Dillon-Perform...ilpage_o04_s00

The dillon does make very good ammo, but it does have limitations/quirks that a single does not have. I do not load in progressive mode tho. I have all my dies, expander, seater, deprimer all in the same head. This saves having to change stuff out. You could actually take 5 thou off the bottom, and then use a lathe to remove about 20 thou off the outside diameter of the bottom of the die also. This would make it fit the shell plate. The single stage kit is the best way to go tho. 60 bucks and 5 mins to change out.
I also use this to convert 308 lapua brass to 6.5 creedmoor. It makes my necks have less run-out when running it thru the die. Its actually better than a rock chucker.....the ram is 4 times as big and a better handle.

I take it you are shooting 250's ? If you have 1:8.5 twist barrel you might as well shoot 300's if you go long, much better ballistics. 94 grains with a 300 will be too hot. How much neck tension are you running ? Turning necks and tension are key factors in a good shooting gun.

In your savage, the chamber will be bigger. Your brass will be blown out near the base of the case, which does not resize as well. In other words, its fire formed and work hardened to your savage chamber. I just sold one of my custom 338's that only had 15 rounds shot thru it. The guy that I sold it to ran into the same problem. Old brass in a tight custom chamber does not work well. The whole time he was ragging lapua brass was crap and the chamber had a burr......bullshit, because I had already shot the gun. Factory lapua ammo shot great out of the box and on a reload. None of his old shit brass that had been loaded at least 10 times would work. WE had to beat the bolt back out of it. Not to mention his brass was 30-40 thou too long from trim length of 2.714. He has never annealed anything in his life. Some people are like talking to a brick wall....too bad he is a good friend tho. If you are going to run with the big dogs, don't skimp on good bushing dies, brass, etc..

[dan68]

Wilson, can't tell you how much I appreciate all that info!! I'll look into and get that conversion kit. Right now I'm bascally in single stage with that gun anyway. Using the redding bushing resizing die in station one to resize and seat primers. Then a Wilson seater. Just changing to the redding from rcbs I gained .003 less runout. I'm finding good dies are essential. I'm not one to skimp on anything when it comes to shooting. I don't mind in the least spending more to make things better. Hate to admit it but I have equiptment that's probably not being used to it's full potential because of my capabilities and lack of understanding. Always something to learn but I enjoy it. I'm not sure what I'm getting for neck tension. I have the arbor press with a dial indicator but it seems difficult for me to determine how to say where the gauge is when it's actually seating if that makes sense. Especially with a compressed load. I know I definitely need to anneal the necks more often. In a nut shell I just grabbed three case to work with to break the barrel in and find my max load. Figured I would keep using those same three throughout the process and toss them. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have my own range up to 400 yards right out my back door. That way I wasn't having to load a bunch of various stuff to take to the range. Probably doing everything ars backwards but it's i guess just how I do it at least until I find a better way. That CA is a 1-10 twist barrel and I've been shooting Berger 300 grainers. Once I'm where I need to be all necks always get turned. All this brings up more questions like just how much neck clean up is necessary, how close to the shoulder should a guy go? Other question is.... The way I normally find a good load is start between starting load and max according to the book and load up from there until I see signs of pressure. Then load three rounds working down in powder charge from there chronographing all and finding my best groups as well as consistent speeds. Then take that best load and start playing with seating depths. Is there a better way or am I missing something I coulld be doing differently? Definitely want long range out of it. Again Wilson I am extremely appreciative of all the information!
Dan

[wilson1911]

I am not sure what tools you are using, but they all work about the same way.

I have a 21st century lathe neck turner. On neck turning. You will need to use a ball end mic to see how thick your necks are. For example, if they measure .015 they vary a small amount. You then take the smallest neck measured and turn all to match that one. Lapua brass is pretty good, you will only actually be skimming the necks. This leaves a few spots where there will be no cuts. Turn the neck and just touch the neck/shoulder junction.

For measuring neck tension....take a loaded round and measure the neck. Subtract 2 thou from this. This will be your bushing size. Remember turning the neck will directly effect what size bushing you use. As the neck gets thinner, your bushing gets smaller.

I am an OCW guy. I do not do ladders. I also use a magnetospeed to correlate data with charges. My current 6.5 creed load on hornady brass SD is 4.1 and a ES of 10. Remember this is loading on a 550 also and proof they make good ammo.

I do not care about how fast my round is, being where I want in the node is more important. I would personally start at 88 grains and work up. 94 is going to be a hot load and wear on brass quickly.

[dan68]

Yes I have the same 21st-century trimmer that you can put a drill on. Very nice tool I do not have the ball Mic I will get one of those as well so if I'm gathering all this information correctly you're telling me that if I get the conversion kit to make my Dillon a single stage I should be able to bump the shoulder back with the Reading die I have, Use a brand-new Lepro a brass and I should be OK? If that's the case I may as well send this Reading body die back to midway which would save me almost the difference of the conversion kit. I'll take your advice on working up the load and start at 88 because 94 was just on the hot side. I also do not care too much about speed I would rather have a tighter grouping but would hope to not sacrificed too much speed to get there.

[dan68]

I gave that shell holder a really good luck and I cannot see anywhere where it couldn't be contacting the die. It's coming down completely all the way on the shell holder unless I'm missing something

[dan68]

I also have a friend that had the 338 Lappula and I believe the savage Hunter series. He ran into the same issue but was using a rock truck or press. Evidently he got so frustrated with it he just sold the gun

[wilson1911]

Use a brand-new Lepro a brass and I should be OK? I do not understand what lepro is. Do you mean lapua brass ? Keep using the same 3 pieces since they are shot already.

I use redding type S dies. On the shell plate where it looks as if the bottom of the die will fit into the recess....it will contact the plate just as it enters since it is on an angle. I first took a few thou off my die, and then reamed the shell plate out on 1 station to use. Raise the ram and work it back and forth watching for shell plate movement.

If your using the same dies I am, you should be able to shoulder bump the brass, but its a tight fit between the bottom of the die and shell plate. One thing you can do is to remove the shell plate and see if you can bump it. If you have no problems, then your making contact somewhere with the plate on.

There is a good vid on YT of the 21st century lathe from a brit guy that is excellent.