Gary Johnson polling at 15% (was 13%)

Originally Posted by 26 Inf

Understood that - if they don't there is no hope short term.

Assuming Republicans maintain a 1 or 2 seat majority, I expect them to fold like lawn chairs on any slightly left of center nominee. They may mount a successful block of a nominee who is a radical leftest like RBG.

Originally Posted by 26 Inf

At this point I believe our next President will be Clinton. I freely admit that is a defeatist attitude. Unfortunately, I feel it is a realistic attitude. In the past I've been able to 'play' with my Presidential vote as Kansas has been solidly Republican. I had intended to vote for Johnson/Weld this cycle. Recent polling has convinced me that, at this point, my vote for Trump may be needed to defeat Clinton in Kansas. That is what I intend to do, although I feel Nationally it will be a futile gesture.

I've thought for a long while that our only hope is to have the Congress in Republican hands. I haven't done exhaustive research, but to my knowledge Robert Bork has been the only nominee in modern times turned down for confirmation. Of several nominations have been withdrawn for various reasons.

So my questions to those more knowledgeable is this: How likely is it that a Republican Senate would hold Clinton's feet to the fire and refuse to confirm someone whose record indicates they were not pro-2A? And would the 2A be the hill Clinton chose to live or die on?

Thanks.

I think it's realist, not defeatist. I was 100% sure Obama was going to win the past 2 elections as well but what surprised me the most was by HOW much--some states flipped blue that really surprised me.

When you start counting the states you can count on to not go that way the electoral votes just don't add up anymore. If any of the more populous "southern" states go blue (Florida, North Carolina, Virginia) it's over.

Originally Posted by Koshinn

I just hate driving anywhere near the Strip.

Got 3 tickets (they're free) lol. I'll see if either my Dad and Step-Mom want to go or my Step-Brother and his wife want to go.

I'm planning on recording as much as possible on things pertaining to the 2A. If he allows questions, I'm going to try ask about his stance on:
AWB
National CCW Reciprocity
NFA regarding SBRs and Suppressors
GCA regarding MGs
'89 Bush abd '98 Clinton import ban
and mainly the differences between his stance and Weld's stance and if the differences will be influential to his policies or if he'll... stick to his guns. *sunglasses*

Take one for the team!

Originally Posted by Sensei

2) the message that you want to send to the GOP.

Not sure how old you are, but Ross Perot sent no message to the GOP. No change. Full steam ahead. Ross Perot got 19% of the vote. Do you believe Johnson will get 20% or more? If you don't, then there is no message to be written on that notepad. None. Not a single signal is going through to anyone if Johnson doesn't take MORE than the GOP candidate. He won't -- he simply won't ever do it. No matter how many "message folks" are out there.

That is not to say that I am advocating you vote for anyone other than the person you'd like to vote for either. Just real talk. Real facts.

If Johnson wants to be taken seriously, by people looking to ditch big GOPe, he better ditch BLM support, un-F his Fudd VP, get some SCOTUS picks lined up that are straight up airtight gun rights folks, and start talking about how you can have both freedom, and a minimalist government that still takes care of Grammy on SS and Medicare, the roads, lets you get your weed stash stocked up, and still allows your kids to keep their inheritance.

...or those that want to primary conservatives like Lee and Cruz is: enjoy the pain. You brought it on yourself - now enjoy it. I will survive the next 8-40 years, I don't give a damn if you don't.

1) I voted for Cruz in the VA Primary, as did every single one of my family members.

2) A 7-2 SCOTUS majority may well bring about a shooting engagement if things get as sporty as a 7-2 majority might make them.

Originally Posted by Falar

I think it's realist, not defeatist. I was 100% sure Obama was going to win the past 2 elections as well but what surprised me the most was by HOW much--some states flipped blue that really surprised me.

When you start counting the states you can count on to not go that way the electoral votes just don't add up anymore. If any of the more populous "southern" states go blue (Florida, North Carolina, Virginia) it's over.

There has got to be something that moves the silent majority off their farm, out of the woods, off their land, to come out and vote. There are over 90,000,000 people alive, real people, over 18 -- who are not voting every single Presidential election. Not sure what it is that will ever motivate folks to vote, but right now no one can see their lives moving forward without a government official promising/providing them something. It's baffling.

Originally Posted by SHIVAN

Not sure how old you are, but Ross Perot sent no message to the GOP. No change. Full steam ahead. Ross Perot got 19% of the vote. Do you believe Johnson will get 20% or more? If you don't, then there is no message to be written on that notepad. None. Not a single signal is going through to anyone if Johnson doesn't take MORE than the GOP candidate. He won't -- he simply won't ever do it. No matter how many "message folks" are out there.

That is not to say that I am advocating you vote for anyone other than the person you'd like to vote for either. Just real talk. Real facts.

If Johnson wants to be taken seriously, by people looking to ditch big GOPe, he better ditch BLM support, un-F his Fudd VP, get some SCOTUS picks lined up that are straight up airtight gun rights folks, and start talking about how you can have both freedom, and a minimalist government that still takes care of Grammy on SS and Medicare, the roads, lets you get your weed stash stocked up, and still allows your kids to keep their inheritance.



1) I voted for Cruz in the VA Primary, as did every single one of my family members.

2) A 7-2 SCOTUS majority may well bring about a shooting engagement if things get as sporty as a 7-2 majority might make them.

Perot is a strange case. I was not an adult in 1992 but my memories are of a guy that would have hurt Bush:

Pro-2A
Anti-NAFTA
Pro-Capitalism
VP pick was former Admiral and Vietnam POW

Yet when I read about that election now in the history books they claim he took from across the full political spectrum.

Kind of sad to look back now and see the qualifications of HW Bush and the Perot tickets and see that a ****ing nobody like Clinton won.

Originally Posted by SHIVAN

Not sure how old you are, but Ross Perot sent no message to the GOP. No change. Full steam ahead. Ross Perot got 19% of the vote. Do you believe Johnson will get 20% or more? .

If he gets into the debates and does not say anything too goofy, sure, why not? Considering the % of voters who can't stand their choices within their own party, the fact 15% voters polled still undecided, the high number of independents, the Bernie voters, etc, there's no reason at all he can't pull those numbers. It's also essentially irrelevant. How he could potentially win via the EC was covered a few pages back I recall and although a long shot to bure, not as long as people may think in my view.

Originally Posted by Falar

Perot is a strange case. I was not an adult in 1992 but my memories are of a guy that would have hurt Bush:

Pro-2A
Anti-NAFTA
Pro-Capitalism
VP pick was former Admiral and Vietnam POW

Yet when I read about that election now in the history books they claim he took from across the full political spectrum.

Kind of sad to look back now and see the qualifications of HW Bush and the Perot tickets and see that a ****ing nobody like Clinton won.

It doesn't matter what spectrum Perot pulled from, I don't care who won, in the context of answering a direct insinuation that Johnson's campaign, and a vote for Johnson sends a "message".

Unless Johnson BEATS the total vote count in either the electoral, or popular, votes of either MAIN party candidate, it sends NO MESSAGE. Zero. Zilch. Neither the Dems or the GOP will receive anything of value from Johnson unless they have him garner more votes than their horse. Which he won't. Nor would Ron Paul, or Rand Paul, or Cruz on an "I" ticket.

People are literally going to vote in the 40,000,000 range by clicking "R" or "D", and may not even know the names on the card. So we start at 40M for each side, and mop up the indies, undecideds, and people who like to claim undecided but were either "R" or "D" all along.

Originally Posted by SHIVAN

You understand that his two sons are driving his policy on guns, right? You understand that every talking point that the Trump candidacy is using about guns come from Eric and Donald Jr, right? You completely understand, or still disbelieve?

That much is obvious to anyone paying attention with a room temperature IQ or better, Trump basically said so much in his NRA speech and while I can't prove it, I would not be shocked to learn Eric and Donald Jr were in the NFA owners club. As for GJ & Weld, Weld's a gun grabbing scumbag & GJ is apathetic at best, fake ass "libertarian" that is no friend if gun owners.... That fact plus the fact he's open borders he can straight **** himself, 3rd party with no chance at winning aside. If GJ were POTUS he'd literally let in all the democrat voters needed to assure only those with D's behind their name win POTUS in the future. GJ & Weld are buffoons!

Originally Posted by PatrioticDisorder

That much is obvious to anyone paying attention with a room temperature IQ or better, Trump basically said so much in his NRA speech and while I can't prove it, I would not be shocked to learn Eric and Donald Jr were in the NFA owners club. As for GJ & Weld, Weld's a gun grabbing scumbag & GJ is apathetic at best, fake ass "libertarian" that is no friend if gun owners.... That fact plus the fact he's open borders he can straight **** himself, 3rd party with no chance at winning aside. If GJ were POTUS he'd literally let in all the democrat voters needed to assure only those with D's behind their name win POTUS in the future. GJ & Weld are buffoons!

Wait, tell us how you really feel. By all means though, Trump is a joke, and I don't care how dyed in the wool of a Republican you are, how can you possibly feel okay wasting your vote on him? Because he's not Hillary? Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil. I just don't get it. Narrow-mindedness and single issue voters is what got us where we are with Trump vs Hillary as the majority, and what gt Obama elected for two terms. It's ****ed up. Hillary is going to win, and there frankly isn't much voters can do about it at this point.

Gun owners and 2A supporters can just plan for the absolute worst at this point. I'll post this one again though, Since you failed to read it last time.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm