Gary Johnson polling at 15% (was 13%)

Originally Posted by Skyyr

There is a distinct difference between allowing adults to be free and make their own choices versus explicitly writing laws to "grant" freedoms that are self-evident to begin with. Johnson is a supporter of the latter, which ironically confirms he was never a Libertarian to begin with.

I was directly referring to "allow deviant sexual lifestyles, and anything else to flourish that is contradictory to the Constitution and a moral society". In my views, what someone does in their bedroom isn't mine, or the Government's business, as long as everything is between two consenting parties.

Originally Posted by TMS951

Moral is subjective so sure I'll give you that.

But please tell me more about how these things are not constitutional? I think it would be much easier to argue the war on drugs is not constitutional than that their legalization is not constitutional.

I don't know if you have been keeping track but the War on Drugs has been an epic Goat fcuk at a huge cost to tax payers and has done nothing to stop dumbasses from doing them. This may be a news flash to you but drugs won the war on drugs. The only people who have gained from the war on drugs are the prison system and the police state. Our country as a whole has been diminished by the war on drugs.

Our founding fathers and our country at its inception did just fine with no drugs being illegal. Making drugs illegal is as effective and as stupid as making guns illegal, both idea's come from the same sentiment and don't address the root of the problem.

The war on drugs keeps a lot of people employed within the government. These people will vote for more government, not less. Another way of feeding the self-sustaining beast.

How many Alphabet Agencies and federal cops do we need?

ICE
USBP (why are these different?)
US Marshals
FBI
SS
IRS (they have their own "agents" too)
DEA
BATFE
DHS
TSA
NSA
CIA

I'm sure I even missed some.

Originally Posted by TMS951

Moral is subjective so sure I'll give you that.

There are a lot of people on this forum that would argue that point.

We haven't really had a good 'ol fashion M4Carbine.net religious debate in a while though.

Originally Posted by Koshinn

There are a lot of people on this forum that would argue that point.

We haven't really had a good 'ol fashion M4Carbine.net religious debate in a while though.

Please don't do it here. Start new thread for good 'ol fashion M4Carbine.net religious debate.

Originally Posted by Falar

The war on drugs keeps a lot of people employed within the government. These people will vote for more government, not less. Another way of feeding the self-sustaining beast.

How many Alphabet Agencies and federal cops do we need?

ICE
USBP (why are these different?)
US Marshals
FBI
SS
IRS (they have their own "agents" too)
DEA
BATFE
DHS
TSA
NSA
CIA

I'm sure I even missed some.

Federal Bureau of Prisons, not to mention the "growth business" of private run prisons, which lobbies hard.

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

Better be bringing a ton of cash. Just buying a free standing garage in the keys can cost more than buying a house in the rest of Florida. There are cheaper places to be homeless.

Yeah, but are there more fun places to be homeless? I will literally dispense my worldly possessions and just hang out all day living on love and sunshine. Hell, I would move to Florida now, like mainland Florida, but meh.

Anyways, I'm voting Trump because what the hell.

BOP.gov has drug offenses listed at 46.4% of the prison pop. I wonder how many were non-violent users that are now hardened thugs thanks to their education once in the system? Our tax dollars well spent?


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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

And of course that is true for every single person who has ever lost an election anywhere in the world since the beginning of time. Hell if he votes for Hillary and she LOSES it is a wasted vote by your criteria.

So who would you have us vote for to prevent Hillary from being elected? If it's "nobody" and you truly believe Hillary can't lose, then AGAIN why do you care? What concerns you so much if everyone on this forum votes for Trump?

If there is no way he can beat Hillary, it doesn't matter if we vote for Trump or Christy Canyon.

Even if you actually believe Trump is "as bad" as Hillary it won't matter. Frightening that anyone on this forum could arrive at that conclusion, but if it really is "all the same" then it doesn't matter if you vote with your left hand or with your right hand.

But if Trump can beat Hillary, then it matters a great deal.

So given the above, why your continued, strenuous objection to Trump?

I'm not trying to keep Hillary from getting elected. That is going to happen unless a force external to the campaign (i.e. Federal indictment or health crisis) occurs. Thus, the only purpose that my vote can have is to a) bolster a 3rd party with the hope of downstream success, and / or b) send a message. Between you and me, I don't have much faith in "a" since half of the Libertarian Party rank and file are a clown show (the other half is pretty thoughtful), but hey - you never know. So, it largely comes down to sending a message.

You see, the GOP cares about 2 things: your money and your vote - in that order. If you don't like the fact that the GOP has put forth a ballot of statists, then send them a message. Right now, they are betting that you won't. They think that you will sit back and swallow whatever donkey dick candidate they put forth.

As for me, I'd much rather stomach the pain of President Hillary Rodham Clinton who was chosen by the idiot class, than support a party that puts for candidates like Trump, Burr, Voxx, King, Palin, etc.

Once Trump loses and the Senate flips (or tightens to the narrowest of majorities), maybe, just maybe the GOP will get the message. If they don't, then we can rinse and repeat every 8 years with the likes of Kaine, Warren, et al. Hell, I'm content to do this ad nauseum until most major cities look like Mogadishu and it's time to settle the country's differences Gangs of NY style.

Originally Posted by pingdork

BOP.gov has drug offenses listed at 46.4% of the prison pop. I wonder how many were non-violent users that are now hardened thugs thanks to their education once in the system? Our tax dollars well spent?


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Here's my thing about non violent drug offenders in our prison system, "What were the original charges?" If you want to be all nonviolent, don't let that be your claim to fame only once you have pled down the original charges and took the deal the Prosecutor offered.
Lets see the whole blue plate special of charges in the original arrest and then we will determine just how non violent this game started out.

Originally Posted by Averageman

Here's my thing about non violent drug offenders in our prison system, "What were the original charges?" If you want to be all nonviolent, don't let that be your claim to fame only once you have pled down the original charges and took the deal the Prosecutor offered.
Lets see the whole blue plate special of charges in the original arrest and then we will determine just how non violent this game started out.

Good point. But surely there are many that aren't. I've known several users over the years who were pretty normal guys, had jobs, families.
There's a flip side to the hardcore user who spends a lot of time interacting with police.



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