Gary Johnson polling at 15% (was 13%)

Originally Posted by Sensei

I'm not trying to keep Hillary from getting elected. That is going to happen unless a force external to the campaign (i.e. Federal indictment or health crisis) occurs. Thus, the only purpose that my vote can have is to a) bolster a 3rd party with the hope of downstream success, and / or b) send a message. Between you and me, I don't have much faith in "a" since half of the Libertarian Party rank and file are a clown show (the other half is pretty thoughtful), but hey - you never know. So, it largely comes down to sending a message.

So with the specter of President Clinton, you are going to "waste your vote" to "send a message?"

Wasn't it not very long ago you were critical of people who supported Trump in the nomination process and chastised the ones who "sent a message" to the GOP?

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Federal Bureau of Prisons, not to mention the "growth business" of private run prisons, which lobbies hard.

Apparently they are going to quit with the private prisons:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.667ede11a30b

Also HUD has it's own police, to include TAC teams - I attended my first MP5 Instructor Course with a couple of them.

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

So with the specter of President Clinton, you are going to "waste your vote" to "send a message?"

Wasn't it not very long ago you were critical of people who supported Trump in the nomination process and chastised the ones who "sent a message" to the GOP?

Some people just like to tilt at windmills.

If I have read you right via your posts, you understand, and in reciprocity understand likewise, a lot of Zen.

What I know is that , while I dislike Trump as a person, a vote his way will count more against Clinton than a vote for anyone else.

Beyond that, whatever happens, happens.

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

So with the specter of President Clinton, you are going to "waste your vote" to "send a message?"

Wasn't it not very long ago you were critical of people who supported Trump in the nomination process and chastised the ones who "sent a message" to the GOP?

Nope. But I did point out that anyone hoping to stop Trump after the NH Primary was wasting their time by voting for people like Bush, Rubio, or Kasich. Whatever you think of Cruz as a person or a general election candidate, I think that we can agree that he was the only Primary candidate with a prayer of stopping Trump after NH and especially after SC.

I also got a chuckle out of people who thought that nominating Trump would somehow fundamentally change the GOP. The only fundamental change brought about by nominating a crony capitalist statist to a party led by other crony capitalist statists is to insure that the party suffers an avoidable, crushing defeat. I fully expect the GOP to fail to hear the message even after Prebus is done picking up the pieces of Trump's candidacy once Hillary dusts off and nukes him from low orbit. No, I'm betting that the message will not be heard until more GOP Congressional leadership gets decimated in the 2018 mid-terms. The type of group-think that accepts a Trump candidacy can take a while to get purged from a party as lost as the GOP.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Nope. But I did point out that anyone hoping to stop Trump after the NH Primary was wasting their time by voting for people like Bush, Rubio, or Kasich. Whatever you think of Cruz as a person or a general election candidate, I think that we can agree that he was the only Primary candidate with a prayer of stopping Trump after NH and especially after SC.

I also got a chuckle out of people who thought that nominating Trump would somehow fundamentally change the GOP. The only fundamental change brought about by nominating a crony capitalist statist to a party led by other crony capitalist statists is to insure that the party suffers an avoidable, crushing defeat. I fully expect the GOP to fail to hear the message even after Prebus is done picking up the pieces of Trump's candidacy once Hillary dusts off and nukes him from low orbit. No, I'm betting that the message will not be heard until more GOP Congressional leadership gets decimated in the 2018 mid-terms. The type of group-think that accepts a Trump candidacy can take a while to get purged from a party as lost as the GOP.

So what happens after Trump wins? How will you come on here and explain it?

Originally Posted by PatrioticDisorder

So what happens after Trump wins? How will you come on here and explain it?

Nobody is perfect...but I come damn close.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Nobody is perfect...but I come damn close.

However, I'll be happy to admit my mistake if he wins and governs as a conservative or even right of GWB.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Nope. But I did point out that anyone hoping to stop Trump after the NH Primary was wasting their time by voting for people like Bush, Rubio, or Kasich. Whatever you think of Cruz as a person or a general election candidate, I think that we can agree that he was the only Primary candidate with a prayer of stopping Trump after NH and especially after SC.

I also got a chuckle out of people who thought that nominating Trump would somehow fundamentally change the GOP. The only fundamental change brought about by nominating a crony capitalist statist to a party led by other crony capitalist statists is to insure that the party suffers an avoidable, crushing defeat. I fully expect the GOP to fail to hear the message even after Prebus is done picking up the pieces of Trump's candidacy once Hillary dusts off and nukes him from low orbit. No, I'm betting that the message will not be heard until more GOP Congressional leadership gets decimated in the 2018 mid-terms. The type of group-think that accepts a Trump candidacy can take a while to get purged from a party as lost as the GOP.

Yeah, I don't really think Trump was the GOP's idea so much as it was the idea of the majority of Republican voters. The GOP actually had people endorsing Hillary over Trump. Trump WAS the message that was sent to the GOP, but here I have to actually agree with you, they still haven't understood the message.

Originally Posted by Falar

The war on drugs keeps a lot of people employed within the government. These people will vote for more government, not less. Another way of feeding the self-sustaining beast.

How many Alphabet Agencies and federal cops do we need?

ICE
USBP (why are these different?)
US Marshals
FBI
SS
IRS (they have their own "agents" too)
DEA
BATFE
DHS
TSA
NSA
CIA

I'm sure I even missed some.

You forgot the united states post office. They have 3 swat teams that I know of. I took a carbine class with some of them.

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

Yeah, I don't really think Trump was the GOP's idea so much as it was the idea of the plurality of Republican voters. The GOP actually had people endorsing Hillary over Trump. Trump WAS the message that was sent to the GOP, but here I have to actually agree with you, they still haven't understood the message.

FIFY. The majority wanted someone else. This is an important reason why Trump will lose big unless Hillary has a stroke or is indicted.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ote_count.html

While I can't find it now, I recall an article from a few months ago claiming that Trump's core of support are not reliable donors to the Republican Party. This seems intuitively correct to me since much of Trump's appeal is to working class Republicans and Dems who do not have the disposable income to make big dollar donations (a statement of fact, not a criticism). So, having a minority of the party, who tend not to put their money where its mouth is, nominate the weakest candidate in 40 years is not a message that the "establishment" is going to hear.

On the other hand, conservatives and donors are sending a message that will eventually be heard - one way or another.