New Aimpoint magnifiers

[Coal Dragger]

I think the chances of that arrangement maintaining zero on a flip over mount would be slim to none. If it were possible the additional cost to mount a prismatic scope in a mount capable of returning to a useful zero every time would be prohibitive, and probably also heavy.

A better solution exists already.

[TAZ]

You're completely missing the physics of it. If the dot is magnified, so is the target. ANYTHING IN FRONT OF A MAGNIFIER GETS BIGGER BY THE SAME AMOUNT.

Anything shifted...is shifted the same. So if your dot shifts, the target shifts WITH IT THE SAME AMOUNT. Hence you have no POI shift when using a magnifier. I have tried to induce shift in every way I can think. None occurred. At all. At least, if it did, it was far less than 1 MOA.

LOL. Wish there was an I feel stupid emoticon.

Thanks.

[WS6]

I think the chances of that arrangement maintaining zero on a flip over mount would be slim to none. If it were possible the additional cost to mount a prismatic scope in a mount capable of returning to a useful zero every time would be prohibitive, and probably also heavy.

A better solution exists already.

Might have to go with a QD instead of STS magnifier. Or a lot of thought put into the STS function.

[Coal Dragger]

Why not just run a D-EVO? Like I said the solution exists to having your RDS and magnification with BDC and wind holds in another optic. The only real disadvantage the D-EVO has is that it might force you to alter your grip on the rifle for taking shots at distance, and it might be tougher to run from a left handed barricade. These are not really problems that are insurmountable, if your target is far enough away that you need magnification and the BDC you probably have time to alter your grip on the fore end, and along the same lines come up with a stand off distance from a barricade.

For most shooting situations (99%) the D-EVO totally obsoletes every red dot magnifier on the market. Sorry but it is true, pick a good red dot and put a D-EVO behind it and the combo will be tougher, faster, and more capable of a high degree of accuracy than any current or likely to be developed magnifier and red dot combo.

[WS6]

Why not just run a D-EVO? Like I said the solution exists to having your RDS and magnification with BDC and wind holds in another optic. The only real disadvantage the D-EVO has is that it might force you to alter your grip on the rifle for taking shots at distance, and it might be tougher to run from a left handed barricade. These are not really problems that are insurmountable, if your target is far enough away that you need magnification and the BDC you probably have time to alter your grip on the fore end, and along the same lines come up with a stand off distance from a barricade.

For most shooting situations (99%) the D-EVO totally obsoletes every red dot magnifier on the market. Sorry but it is true, pick a good red dot and put a D-EVO behind it and the combo will be tougher, faster, and more capable of a high degree of accuracy than any current or likely to be developed magnifier and red dot combo.

No BUIS, offset, heavier, can't be switched rifle to rifle with no loss of zero, and I don't need a BDC for anything.

[Coal Dragger]

BUIS is frankly overrated, even military users are realizing this. Chances are if the rifle gets hit hard enough to destroy the optic, the rifle itself may not be functional, plus you have two tough optics on the rifle, how likely is it that both would fail at the same time?

Offset is a tiny issue to the point of being a non issue where actual shooting is concerned, the optic offset is ballistically compensated for in the reticle rendering trajectory vs point of aim concerns basically moot.

Weight is not much heavier for the D-EVO. In fact given that something like an Eotech G33 and mount weighs 11.2 ounces vs the D-EVO weight of 13.8 ounces the argument about weight is ridiculous. Assuming we are going to use the same red dot sight regardless, then there is a tiny difference in weight. If you think 2.6 ounces one way or another is going to drastically affect your ability to use the weapon system then you probably need to consider working on physical conditioning. The new Aimpoint 6X unit weighs 8.8 ounces before you put a ring on it and put that on a mount, I'll wager full up weight will be in the 12-13 ounce range.

As for swapping from rifle to rifle without losing zero, I have two things to point out. First of all you were just a few posts prior advocating the awesome idea of a prismatic scope on a flip over mount that you would somehow co-witness zero with your red dot sight. Looking past the impracticality of such an arrangement, this would seem to directly contradict your complaint of not being able to swap from upper to upper without the need to re-zero. Secondly even current magnifiers still need their azimuth adjusted to center the dot up in the magnifier.... so those won't even go from upper to upper without adjustment if you want an optimal sight picture.

For a guy who now claims to not need a BDC for anything why were you theorizing about how great it would be to have a prismatic optic on a flip mount behind your red dot sight that has a BDC or other reticle features built in?

[WS6]

BUIS is frankly overrated, even military users are realizing this. Chances are if the rifle gets hit hard enough to destroy the optic, the rifle itself may not be functional, plus you have two tough optics on the rifle, how likely is it that both would fail at the same time? I'm more worried about mud, rain, sleet, fogging, ice, and other stuff I encounter while hunting. Not RPG's.

Offset is a tiny issue to the point of being a non issue where actual shooting is concerned, the optic offset is ballistically compensated for in the reticle rendering trajectory vs point of aim concerns basically moot.
This ballistic compensation does not prevent it from snagging on things and getting banged into stuff.

Weight is not much heavier for the D-EVO. In fact given that something like an Eotech G33 and mount weighs 11.2 ounces vs the D-EVO weight of 13.8 ounces the argument about weight is ridiculous. Assuming we are going to use the same red dot sight regardless, then there is a tiny difference in weight. If you think 2.6 ounces one way or another is going to drastically affect your ability to use the weapon system then you probably need to consider working on physical conditioning. The new Aimpoint 6X unit weighs 8.8 ounces before you put a ring on it and put that on a mount, I'll wager full up weight will be in the 12-13 ounce range. I had thought it was heavier. Right you are!

As for swapping from rifle to rifle without losing zero, I have two things to point out. First of all you were just a few posts prior advocating the awesome idea of a prismatic scope on a flip over mount that you would somehow co-witness zero with your red dot sight. Because someone asked about a BDC. Personally, I have no use for it. Read a few posts up from my Vunderbdc post.Looking past the impracticality of such an arrangement, this would seem to directly contradict your complaint of not being able to swap from upper to upper without the need to re-zero. Secondly even current magnifiers still need their azimuth adjusted to center the dot up in the magnifier.... so those won't even go from upper to upper without adjustment if you want an optimal sight picture. You''re correct, but azimuth adjustment has no impact on the zero.

For a guy who now claims to not need a BDC for anything why were you theorizing about how great it would be to have a prismatic optic on a flip mount behind your red dot sight that has a BDC or other reticle features built in? Because someone asked, and I have a penis. That means I'm a born "problem solver", or at least I have the drive to be.

Replies in red. I still have no use for a BDC.

[Coal Dragger]

Well on the hunting concerns or other foul weather use, I used to harbor the same reservations but to be perfectly honest I've never had an optic fog up so badly it couldn't be used. Rain and sleet have also never prevented me from using a quality optic. Do those conditions make it more difficult? Sure, but by no means impossible. If fogging is something you want to avoid, just don't bring your cold gun and optic into a warm structure or vehicle if you can avoid it. Certainly scope covers are advisable to keep water and crap off the lenses, and an optic like the D-EVO is not going to be easily protected with flip up covers. Of course neither is a red dot magnifier.

On the concern about the D-EVO hanging out where it can bang into stuff or snag things.... well so does the magazibe, front sight post, conventional optic, scout light, pistol grip, barrel, stock, or any other part depending on your carry method and your surroundings. Sucks, but unless you want to carry a broomstick chances are a long gun is going to have protrusions that will snag on crap.

[WS6]

Well on the hunting concerns or other foul weather use, I used to harbor the same reservations but to be perfectly honest I've never had an optic fog up so badly it couldn't be used. Rain and sleet have also never prevented me from using a quality optic. Do those conditions make it more difficult? Sure, but by no means impossible. If fogging is something you want to avoid, just don't bring your cold gun and optic into a warm structure or vehicle if you can avoid it. Certainly scope covers are advisable to keep water and crap off the lenses, and an optic like the D-EVO is not going to be easily protected with flip up covers. Of course neither is a red dot magnifier.

On the concern about the D-EVO hanging out where it can bang into stuff or snag things.... well so does the magazibe, front sight post, conventional optic, scout light, pistol grip, barrel, stock, or any other part depending on your carry method and your surroundings. Sucks, but unless you want to carry a broomstick chances are a long gun is going to have protrusions that will snag on crap.

I find that my Bobro mounts snag things. My magazine, not so much. The DEVO looks like one big Bobro hook to me. I have not used it, so I say "LOOKS LIKE", because thats the facts.

I remember last time I was hunting with my comp M4s. It got so wet it was hard to see the dot. I was able to clear it, yes, but had it also been freezing, I would have had to remove it and go to irons. It very nearly was freezing that day, too. Point being, it gives me options. With the DEVO setup, it's glass, or nothing, any way you slice it.

[bad aim]

Just to follow-up for anyone interested, I picked up an EoTech G33. There's a dealer blowing them out at a great cost brand new and I couldn't say no...especially when you consider a similar-rated Aimpoint one costs $200-300 more.

Got some range time with it yesterday and I'm a fan-- it's there when you need it, and if not, it's out of the way. Glass is super clear and there's no distortion of the dot.