Long stroke SureFire Carrier

[militarymoron]

It's how the post-1966 M16/AR15 buffers work....

Are you referring to standard M16/AR15 buffers? If so, then there's a difference in execution - same principle of course. The weights in buffers slide freely. the movement of the sliding weight in the modified ferfrans bolt carrier is delayed by a spring detent that 'unlocks' at the extremes of travel so there's more of a lag behind the carrier movement than a free-sliding weight. the weight has a spring-loaded detent that bears on the inside upper surface of the carrier. there are two detents drilled into the carrier inside - each at the end of the weights travel. the weight 'locks' at each end and releases with some resistance. at the bottom of the weight is the auto sear trip. when a standard bolt carrier moves forward, the bottom shelf trips the auto sear. on the ferfrans, the bolt carrier reaches the end of its forward travel, then the weight is released from the detent and moves forward to trip the sear. that slight delay is what slows down the ROF.

[lysander]

Are you referring to standard M16/AR15 buffers? If so, then there's a difference in execution - same principle of course. The weights in buffers slide freely. the movement of the sliding weight in the modified ferfrans bolt carrier is delayed by a spring detent that 'unlocks' at the extremes of travel so there's more of a lag behind the carrier movement than a free-sliding weight. the weight has a spring-loaded detent that bears on the inside upper surface of the carrier. there are two detents drilled into the carrier inside - each at the end of the weights travel. the weight 'locks' at each end and releases with some resistance. at the bottom of the weight is the auto sear trip. when a standard bolt carrier moves forward, the bottom shelf trips the auto sear. on the ferfrans, the bolt carrier reaches the end of its forward travel, then the weight is released from the detent and moves forward to trip the sear. that slight delay is what slows down the ROF.

Same principle, just a longer delay with the Ferfrans...

[JoshNC]

I'm not familiar with the buffer design or weight the MWS uses (std CAR buffer size or truncated AR10 buffer). I would first experiment with higher buffer weight since modifying the gas system tends to be a no go due to cost and proprietary parts in your case.

308/A5 receiver extension with H3 buffer and rifle spring is how the MWS comes from LMT. Heavybuffers.com has their XH buffer. I've would like to try one.

[mrf24]

Are you referring to standard M16/AR15 buffers? If so, then there's a difference in execution - same principle of course. The weights in buffers slide freely. the movement of the sliding weight in the modified ferfrans bolt carrier is delayed by a spring detent that 'unlocks' at the extremes of travel so there's more of a lag behind the carrier movement than a free-sliding weight. the weight has a spring-loaded detent that bears on the inside upper surface of the carrier. there are two detents drilled into the carrier inside - each at the end of the weights travel. the weight 'locks' at each end and releases with some resistance. at the bottom of the weight is the auto sear trip. when a standard bolt carrier moves forward, the bottom shelf trips the auto sear. on the ferfrans, the bolt carrier reaches the end of its forward travel, then the weight is released from the detent and moves forward to trip the sear. that slight delay is what slows down the ROF.

Does anyone know where to get a Ferfrans carrier? I've been looking for ages - tried contacting Ferfrans but never heard back. They seem impossible to get hold of.

[militarymoron]

Does anyone know where to get a Ferfrans carrier? I've been looking for ages - tried contacting Ferfrans but never heard back. They seem impossible to get hold of.

Last time i heard they weren't offering them anymore; but that was years ago.

[Shootin' Bruin]

Last time i heard they weren't offering them anymore; but that was years ago.

MM, long time lurker here. I personally know Ferdie and his twin brother Francis. In fact, I just came from a dinner with Francis. Ferfrans is still very much in business, but I do not know if carriers are still available to the U.S. market. I do know that their focus has shifted to international sales.

The Ferfrans RRS no longer uses a detent, but the rate of fire is still reduced compared to a standard carrier. Difference in ROF is anywhere from 60-120RPM depending on application (I tested this myself using a delrin plug that kept the rate reducer in the forward position.)

Many years ago, I have also experimented with increasing the cycle distance / stroke of the BCG on a Ferfrans 7.5" piston gun; I managed to get the RPM in the high 400's. This with an H3 buffer in a Vltor A5 receiver extension with a spacer that just kept the carrier from knocking the charging handle backwards. You can see the results here: https://youtu.be/1W3dYD78AcI?t=1m52s

(Note that RPM is approximately 550rpm in this video as an H buffer was used).

I also have done the extended stroke mod on my DI 3-gun rifle. The gas key looks similar to Surefire's, but both screws have been welded in place as no amount of Loctite would keep them secure for more than a few hundred rounds. I will take a picture and post it if you're interested.

Miguel

[Jervis]

MM, long time lurker here. I personally know Ferdie and his twin brother Francis. In fact, I just came from a dinner with Francis. Ferfrans is still very much in business, but I do not know if carriers are still available to the U.S. market. I do know that their focus has shifted to international sales.

The Ferfrans RRS no longer uses a detent, but the rate of fire is still reduced compared to a standard carrier. Difference in ROF is anywhere from 60-120RPM depending on application (I tested this myself using a delrin plug that kept the rate reducer in the forward position.)

Many years ago, I have also experimented with increasing the cycle distance / stroke of the BCG on a Ferfrans 7.5" piston gun; I managed to get the RPM in the high 400's. This with an H3 buffer in a Vltor A5 receiver extension with a spacer that just kept the carrier from knocking the charging handle backwards. You can see the results here: https://youtu.be/1W3dYD78AcI?t=1m52s

(Note that RPM is approximately 550rpm in this video as an H buffer was used).

I also have done the extended stroke mod on my DI 3-gun rifle. The gas key looks similar to Surefire's, but both screws have been welded in place as no amount of Loctite would keep them secure for more than a few hundred rounds. I will take a picture and post it if you're interested.

Miguel

Very interesting! I was always wondering how low can you go with AR-15's ROF. Could Ferfrans bolt carrier with standard H2/H3 buffer get it to 500-600 rpm? Would it be still reliable?

Also DefRev dropped a hint on instagram that Ferfrans BCG's soon will be available for civilian market. Shootin' Bruin is it true?

[mig1nc]

So, was the surefire system at shot show this year? Or still vapor wear?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Jervis]

Last time I emailed them, they told me "there is currently no release date" on SOBC-LS. At least Ferfrans surely isn't vaporware. Just unobtainium
OBC-LS

[tom12.7]

I've seen a few similar R&D concepts in the past few years, some included some other possible good concepts. The problem is that when the market matured enough to possibly bring these out, there was a buying craze, standard components fit better in the business model. Now we are in rapid consumer decline, bringing out these possible components doesn't fit well in most current business models either. When the market stabilizes enough to support some of the newer possible ideas, I'm pretty sure we will find ourselves in a better place for the system as a whole.