Sig P229R fail

[robstercraw]

Catastrophic fail with a fellow agent's duty weapon. This is a SWAT weapon with appx 12k-15k rounds through it. Just FYI for all ya'll in the field, especially fellow leo's. Inspect your weapons periodically for signs of cracks or fractures within the frame. Weapon was sent off to our natl firearms unit for diagnosis.

[HCM]

Catastrophic fail with a fellow agent's duty weapon. This is a SWAT weapon with appx 12k-15k rounds through it. Just FYI for all ya'll in the field, especially fellow leo's. Inspect your weapons periodically for signs of cracks or fractures within the frame. Weapon was sent off to our natl firearms unit for diagnosis.

Diagnosis is the same as the USCG weapons which had the spring box nose failure, SIG recommends changing 40 caliber recoil springs every 3k to 5k rounds and the recoil spring in this weapon wasn't changed.

Per Agency SOP the gun should have pulled at 10k rounds and sent back to natl firearms unit for inspection and re-build.

PMCS (Preventive Maintenance Checks and Services) is a real thing and you need to keep logs / round counts on serious use guns.

If you don't change the oil in your car for 12 or 15k miles what will happen ?

Check your PM/E mail.

[BooneGA]

If you don't change the oil in your car for 12 or 15k miles what will happen ?

Probably nothing.

Back on topic, Cracks are somewhat hard to locate at the user level. We had M9s come back with from the armorer saying the frame was cracked and it took several 18 Series guys quite a while to find.

Question - do most departments keep round logs? I remember when the Army installed the grip sensor that kept track of rounds fired (never saw one that worked), but outside of sniper systems, I haven't seen any tracking of round counts in any of our MK18s, SCARs, or Glocks.

Rick

[jmoore]

Question - do most departments keep round logs?

Rick

Should be pretty simple for many departments! 50 rounds/qual x twice a year = 100 rds/year. Simple.

john

[BooneGA]

Should be pretty simple for many departments! 50 rounds/qual x twice a year = 100 rds/year. Simple.

john

Simple, but disappointing. Is this really that common?

[Coal Dragger]

Diagnosis is the same as the USCG weapons which had the spring box nose failure, SIG recommends changing 40 caliber recoil springs every 3k to 5k rounds and the recoil spring in this weapon wasn't changed.

Per Agency SOP the gun should have pulled at 10k rounds and sent back to natl firearms unit for inspection and re-build.

PMCS (Preventive Maintenance Checks and Services) is a real thing and you need to keep logs / round counts on serious use guns.

If you don't change the oil in your car for 12 or 15k miles what will happen ?

Check your PM/E mail.

Too a car? Probably nothing with modern motor oils and a good filter. As an example myself and a friend acquired a 1995 Ford Aspire to use as a run about car at our away from home terminal (we're rail roaders). We bought it for a case of beer (Miller Lite), and replaced the clutch. Then drove it to Gillette, WY where it still resides. We got the car in late 2010, and it got its first oil change in our care just last week. Still runs. No idea how old the oil and filter were that were in it when we got it. At a minimum close to 6 years old. Car burns a bit so it did get topped up from time to time with the cheapest crap we could find. We also abuse the hell out of the car, because you take liberties with cheap cars.

I'd never treat my primary vehicle, or any firearm like that though. If the little car breaks down, no big deal I don't rely on it every day. If a piece of machinery is mission critical, it had better be maintained. Others can torture test their guns, I'm going to keep mine clean and well lubricated as much as possible, and replace springs on schedule.

[HotSuppa2C1H]

Simple, but disappointing. Is this really that common?

In my area of the Northeast, it's hit or miss. One department will be squared away, while the neighboring town will be the exact opposite...it's all fun and games until Mr. 50 rnds a year is your only backup, and his muzzle discipline is atrocious.

[HCM]

Probably nothing.

Back on topic, Cracks are somewhat hard to locate at the user level. We had M9s come back with from the armorer saying the frame was cracked and it took several 18 Series guys quite a while to find.

Question - do most departments keep round logs? I remember when the Army installed the grip sensor that kept track of rounds fired (never saw one that worked), but outside of sniper systems, I haven't seen any tracking of round counts in any of our MK18s, SCARs, or Glocks.

Rick

You're correct about cracks being hard to spot - which is why our guns are supposed to be pulled for full inspection at 10k rounds regardless of whether PM / spring changes were done locally or not.

Our agency issued log books and required round counts be kept for all weapons (pistol, 870 and M-4) until the adoption of the P229R about 10 years ago.

For regular officers, it easy to guesstimate round counts (600 to 1,000 rounds per year). The current system is to replace the original (no color) recoil springs with color coded ones every few years based on the average officers round count of 1k per year or less. The color tells you what year the spring was changed ( custom ordered from SIG, not the standard blue ones)

That's great for the regular officers but guys in specialized units like the guy this particular pistol was issued to shoot 5k or more per year. These guys should be keeping round counts or just changing springs annually but they don't.

In this case the gun was over 10 years old, still on the original recoil spring with an unknown round count of AT LEAST 12 to 15k rounds. Could easily be 20k or more based on the unit it came from.

Plus from 2005 through 2012, we were using 155 grain .40. Currently using 180 grain which is a bit easier on the guns and the shooters.

SIGs armorer guidance is clear - change recoil springs even 3k to 5k rounds in .40 and .357 guns.

This gun broke because this particular user failed to do spring changes as required. He simply shot it till it broke. it is not indicitive of a QC failure on SIGs part - it's abuse and failure on the part of the user and his units armorer.

[Tzook]

My department doesn't keep track of round counts, AND I have the green light to shoot my duty gun on my own dime as much as I'd like. So theoretically, I could shoot a nearly unlimited amount of ammunition and they wouldn't catch on. Theoretically....