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Thread: Can I use a non KAC bolt carrier in my Sr-15?

  1. #21
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    I read another thread and i believe that what is causing my muzzle to slightly move off point of aim under rapid fire is the bolt carrier hitting the buffer and then being sent into battery. Im not sure at which point it happens.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manoloiv View Post
    I read another thread and i believe that what is causing my muzzle to slightly move off point of aim under rapid fire is the bolt carrier hitting the buffer and then being sent into battery. Im not sure at which point it happens.
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    Nope.
    The slight jump of the bolt carrier to meeting the face of the buffer is barely able to be seen on slow-motion film or captured with accelerometers.
    What IS a factor is how hard the buffer hits the rear of the receiver extension.
    All other factors being the same, the buffer that hits the lightest (or doesn't touch) will feel the least recoil.
    However, relying on spring runout on an AR is a baaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea, and severely compromises function, especially when hot, dirty, dry, or changing environments or ammunition.

    The third factor is the bolt carrier group slamming home to complete cycle of operation just before "firing". This is a very uniform force, messing with it is a super bad idea, and is gone while the gun is still in recoil anyway.

    Now, here's the final little bit: experience and skill is going to do more than the muzzle device or springs will. I have won plenty of 2-gun and carbine matches with a nearly stock Colt 6920 (no brake/comp, no nice trigger) and decent glass over dudes shooting supertrick JP comp guns. Why? Because I got good at shooting that gun, and actually bothered to really zero and know my holds.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  3. #23
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    It sounds like a PEBKAC issue. You said you are doing some training, is this watching YouTube and trying to recreate what you saw or do you have an instructor? If recoil of an AR is an issue its you and not the gun.


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  4. #24
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    Can I use a non KAC bolt carrier in my Sr-15?

    Quote Originally Posted by tanktop View Post
    It sounds like a PEBKAC issue. You said you are doing some training, is this watching YouTube and trying to recreate what you saw or do you have an instructor? If recoil of an AR is an issue its you and not the gun.


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    I m an experienced shooter, not the best but better than average. My rifles are properly zeroed. Not a youtube class taker. I have trained with different instructors.

    When shooting at distance using a shot timer my double taps are not as tight as with some of my other rifles.

    I can handle the recoil of the ar just fine, like i said in one of my earlier posts some of my other ars shoot softer and flatter than my sr-15 and im trying to figure out why. The old legacy mod 1 has softer recoil than the sr15.

    This is my opinion, im no expert.

    Thanks to all for the continued support.


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    Last edited by Manoloiv; 06-16-16 at 15:58.

  5. #25
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    While I'm not going to question your own perception of recoil impulse and the "feel" of your SR15 compared to your other rifles, I will definitely echo most of the folks who have posted here and say, without a doubt, do not change anything besides the muzzle device to get whatever desired effect your are searching for...not the bolt or carrier, not the buffer or spring, and not the receiver extension.

    I'm not saying you're wrong for inquiring about this, but the fact is the SR15 was not designed to be a race gun or have the fastest time on "double taps" at distance. It was designed to be a complete weapon system for combat/duty use with all components integrated effectively and operating efficiently to produce the best possible reliability and performance in all types of conditions with various types of ammo. I'm not trying to define the rifle for KAC as I'm sure Jack can do a better job of that, but that's my take on it.

    I also have a couple ARs that are set up purely for competition and they don't move under recoil due mainly to the gas system/ammo combination and muzzle break. I have them tuned perfectly for the way I want, which also means I may change ammo based on the required distance to targets and precision I require for a particular stage. This is the same reason why I also have a couple ARs set up purely for long range precision...they are heavy with premium barrels, headspaced bolts, great glass, cans that allow for minimal POI shift, etc...and I baby them. But I would never use them for a 2 or 3 gun comp. Similarly, I will never grab a competition gun and ask it to run certain ammo or operate in adverse conditions...but I will reach for the KAC there EVERY SINGLE TIME. If flat out runs.

    I will say this though in reference to the SR15 gas system and recoil impulse...if I didn't have any ARs tuned for competition and only had my combat/duty rifles, the KAC would be the 1st one I would grab to go run in a 2 or 3 gun comp. IMO it really is that good and shoots better than any other factory rifle without any modifications.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWatch16 View Post
    While I'm not going to question your own perception of recoil impulse and the "feel" of your SR15 compared to your other rifles, I will definitely echo most of the folks who have posted here and say, without a doubt, do not change anything besides the muzzle device to get whatever desired effect your are searching for...not the bolt or carrier, not the buffer or spring, and not the receiver extension.

    I'm not saying you're wrong for inquiring about this, but the fact is the SR15 was not designed to be a race gun or have the fastest time on "double taps" at distance. It was designed to be a complete weapon system for combat/duty use with all components integrated effectively and operating efficiently to produce the best possible reliability and performance in all types of conditions with various types of ammo. I'm not trying to define the rifle for KAC as I'm sure Jack can do a better job of that, but that's my take on it.

    I also have a couple ARs that are set up purely for competition and they don't move under recoil due mainly to the gas system/ammo combination and muzzle break. I have them tuned perfectly for the way I want, which also means I may change ammo based on the required distance to targets and precision I require for a particular stage. This is the same reason why I also have a couple ARs set up purely for long range precision...they are heavy with premium barrels, headspaced bolts, great glass, cans that allow for minimal POI shift, etc...and I baby them. But I would never use them for a 2 or 3 gun comp. Similarly, I will never grab a competition gun and ask it to run certain ammo or operate in adverse conditions...but I will reach for the KAC there EVERY SINGLE TIME. If flat out runs.

    I will say this though in reference to the SR15 gas system and recoil impulse...if I didn't have any ARs tuned for competition and only had my combat/duty rifles, the KAC would be the 1st one I would grab to go run in a 2 or 3 gun comp. IMO it really is that good and shoots better than any other factory rifle without any modifications.
    Very well put - thank you


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Now, here's the final little bit: experience and skill is going to do more than the muzzle device or springs will. I have won plenty of 2-gun and carbine matches with a nearly stock Colt 6920 (no brake/comp, no nice trigger) and decent glass over dudes shooting supertrick JP comp guns. Why? Because I got good at shooting that gun, and actually bothered to really zero and know my holds.
    No truer words were ever spoken. My wife has a Colt 6720 with Aimpoint Pro, and I have a 6920 with the same optic - both with stock trigger and hardware. We take one carbine class a year and compete in one match a year. We have never won a match, but neither of us have ever finished last against some pretty high speed equipment. It's a bit satisfying for a couple of 65+ old farts to beat at least a few of the young guns with our obsolete equipment because we practise with the stock triggers and have gotten used to them. Life is good.

  8. #28
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    Curious to ask if the OP has tried a heavier than the 3.0 ounce buffer supplied. A few MOD2 16" guys I know run H1 or H2 buffers with great success, ammunition depending of course. Also, carbine action springs haven't been known to be the most consistent in loading consistency.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manoloiv View Post

    I can handle the recoil of the ar just fine, like i said in one of my earlier posts some of my other ars shoot softer and flatter than my sr-15 and im trying to figure out why. The old legacy mod 1 has softer recoil than the sr15.

    This is my opinion, im no expert.

    Thanks to all for the continued support.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What you are feeling is likely the difference in KAC gas ports from their earlier guns to the newer ones.

    The older ones were about .078", and the newer somewhere around .082".

    KAC is a smart bunch, and optimized the ports for the ammunition people were generally shooting. Keep in mind, the gun was originally designed for full power/pressure military ammunition, not the normal 55gr blasting fodder many folks use.

    The answer you seek is not necessarily to change the carrier, but to select your ammunition wisely and optimize the gas port diameter, gas tube length (intermediate as a constant in this case), etc. for that ammo. This may mean a different barrel.

    Hope this helps!

    S/F

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manoloiv View Post
    A race gun is not what i am after, they need to many specialized parts, ammo and reliability is questionable.
    So instead of buying less-reliable specialized parts you want to get less-reliable specialized parts?

    Huh?



    I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you find what you're looking for.

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