Work In Progress: new F1/F4 guide for 41F submissions

[Jliddle]

Thanks for the reply Waylon.

I'll go ahead and get 2 fd-258's per form made tomorrow. Just to avoid any hassle.

[BigWaylon]

added a section on filling out an FD-258LE Fingerprint Card here...

[Jliddle]

Just got off the phone with a lady at the ATF.

She told me that even if I mailed in two forms simultaneously, that I needed (2) finger print cards per form.

Not sure that helps in anyway, but just thought I'd relay info onto here.

[BigWaylon]

Just got off the phone with a lady at the ATF.

She told me that even if I mailed in two forms simultaneously, that I needed (2) finger print cards per form.

Not sure that helps in anyway, but just thought I'd relay info onto here.

Historically that's not been the case. The previous forms mentioned two cards as well, but two per envelope was always sufficient.

We may not know the "real" answer for a year.

[Bret]

Or the real answer may depend on the agent who does the processing.

[BigWaylon]

I've had two addtional people (including a well known local dealer) report back to say the ATF has also told them they want two FP cards for each serial number submitted, even when multiple forms are submitted in the same envelope. So, I've added the following note in each of the "actions to take" sections:

NOTE: The ATF is saying that two fingerprint cards are required for each serial number, even when multiple forms are submitted at the same time. This is different from how it used to work, but we won’t know for sure until somebody that submits one set for multiple forms in the 41F era reports back.

The dealer said the specialist told him the forms would be "returned without action" if missing the FP cards.

[general_purpose]

Big thanks to BigWaylon for the Herculean effort. I'm doing my form 4 for the private transfer of my suppressor. This is a rich repository of very pertinent and detailed information.

[A5scott]

Hey BigWaylon, thank you for posting all this, i great effort.

sorry if I missed it, but under responsible persons, in a trust, does age matter if they are minors? My nephews, 12 and 13 years old are trustees, that way when I'm gone they can have all my NFA gear. Do minors need to submit prints and pics?

thanks,
scott

[BigWaylon]

Hey BigWaylon, thank you for posting all this, i great effort.

sorry if I missed it, but under responsible persons, in a trust, does age matter if they are minors? My nephews, 12 and 13 years old are trustees, that way when I'm gone they can have all my NFA gear. Do minors need to submit prints and pics?

thanks,
scott

IANAL...

But, as I understand it, you have to be 21 to buy from a dealer and 18 to buy from a non-dealer (or make your own). I was also under the impression that you had to be 18 to be in possession of an NFA item. However, in trying to find something to back that up, I found this on atf.gov:

How old to I have to be to make or own an NFA firearm?
The NFA contains no minimum age in regard to the possession of NFA firearms. Regardless, Federal firearms law prohibits a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector (i.e., licensees) from selling or delivering any firearm or ammunition to any individual that the Federal licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 18 years of age. Federal firearms law further provides that a licensee shall not sell or deliver any firearm or ammunition that is other than a shotgun or rifle or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle to any individual that the Federal licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 21 years of age.

[CFR § 478.99(b)]

Last Reviewed March 2, 2016

(For reference, 478.99 is the reg that includes not selling long guns or ammo to anyone under 18, and not selling handguns or ammo to anyone under 21)

So...all I can say is I really don't know. I haven't seen anything from the ATF putting and age limit on responsible persons. They just have to meet the definition.

My initial thought was your trust was invalid for having underage trustees. They should've been beneficiaries with successor trustees in place to control the items until the first one turned 18. That's how mine is set up. But, as I said above...I may have been making wrong assumptions this whole time. Most "gun lawyers" FAQ links set the minimum at 18 for NFA Trusts.


If anybody has a statute/law/regulation to actually answer the question, let me know.

[nova3930]

I think generally minors can only be successor trustees which means they would not be an RP. if you were to bite it before they hit 18 I believe their guardians would hold the trustee authority till they did. might want to check with your attorney on that though, could vary state to state

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