Is this reload technique stupid?

[Tzook]

Hi all, I have a question regarding the reloading and fixing of malfunctions in semi auto handguns for practical shooting.

I have had the opportunity to do some training with a different agency than my own that's local to me, and they teach everyone in their department to perform emergency reloads and fix malfunctions with the handgun pointed down range, at arms length or close to arms length as if you a were still shooting rather than to bring the gun up to your face in the traditional "workspace" manner. They are saying it's the best way to perform reloads because there isn't any "wasted movement" of bringing the gun back in front of your face and that if you experience an empty magazine or a malfunction while in a fight, continuing to keep the gun pointed down range at your opponent might not clue them in that you aren't shooting back and you have an issue with your weapon and invite them to run up and kill you.

Is this stupid? For me trying it out the last couple of days, it's been considerably slower than the traditional method that I'm used to, but I can chalk that up to never having done it before. If I did it consistently I can see it being fast also. The logic of continuing to point down range does seem solid, especially from a law enforcement perspective. Am I better of sticking to the traditional way I've always done it? Is this a better way to do things and should I try to switch? What do you guys think?

[MountainRaven]

They have a sound hypothesis. Does it stand up to scientific scrutiny?

Given the vast number of guys who reload on a clock who don't use this theoretically faster method of reloading/malfunction clearing, I suspect it would not.

[26 Inf]

I think those guys aren't really thinking it through. Timer will tell the tale. Sometimes guys forget that when they teach tactics they are betting YOUR life.

This sounds to me like some square range bullshit someone thought up to ensure that muzzles stay down range to their satisfaction and made up a pretty flimsy reason to justify it.

JMO

[Tzook]

I'm not sure. My first thought was: **** you guys, this is stupid. I've never seen anybody do this before, and you guys aren't extra tactical or extra special in a world full of professional warriors who don't do this. I'm trying to not allow my ego to get in the way of being objective and becoming the best pistol shooter I can be.

[DirectTo]

Just kinda playing with it in the living room (with an empty gun and mags obviously) it's very awkward to strip mags, feed them well, and even moreso to do an overhand grab on the slide.

Doable? Sure. But think...have you ever seen anyone else do it? That should tell you something.

[L-2]

I commend you for taking a class and trying something new. I've never heard of this technique until now.

Malfunctions.
The malfunctions I might get are:
-bumping the slide stop upward causing a premature slide lockback (I know it shouldn't happen but sometimes it just does);
-some type of stovepipe, limp wrist, failure to eject/double-feed, weaponlight-caused cycling error; or
-a no-fire due to a bad round of ammo.
A tap, rack (& if necessary, a bang) drill may cure all but the middle one.
With the first malf, it could also end up dumping a good, although, partially loaded mag on the ground.
Is that the malfunction cure you're speaking of or are they somehow curing a double-feed type malf with arms outstretched also? If so, I can't see doing that.

My initial thoughts are the new technique is stupid, and a waste of time getting a gun quickly back into service. I suppose I'd really need to be there and see and try it for myself.

Perhaps I'm already doing what you've been taught or somewhere in between, however.
My "tap, rack, bang" is done pretty darn quickly with only minor bending of my elbows.

[Firefly]

I think those guys aren't really thinking it through. Timer will tell the tale. Sometimes guys forget that when they teach tactics they are betting YOUR life.

This sounds to me like some square range bullshit someone thought up to ensure that muzzles stay down range to their satisfaction and made up a pretty flimsy reason to justify it.

JMO

I agree. Sometimes people see something on TV, internet, or magazine and try to re invent the wheel.

Meanwhile everybody legit just does the prime basics faster and harder.

[MountainRaven]

I guess I'm the odd one out.

I've heard of this before, but it seemed to be a common thing in the 90s, when we (Americans with guns) hadn't quite figured it out, yet. (In fact, I'd bet you have seen it. Everybody's favorite former-SAS movie shooting instructor taught the actor playing the T-1000, Robert Patrick, to perform reloads with this technique for Terminator 2: Judgement Day.)

[Tzook]

I commend you for taking a class and trying something new. I've never heard of this technique until now.

Malfunctions.
The malfunctions I might get are:
-bumping the slide stop upward causing a premature slide lockback (I know it shouldn't happen but sometimes it just does);
-some type of stovepipe, limp wrist, failure to eject/double-feed, weaponlight-caused cycling error; or
-a no-fire due to a bad round of ammo.
A tap, rack (& if necessary, a bang) drill may cure all but the middle one.
With the first malf, it could also end up dumping a good, although, partially loaded mag on the ground.
Is that the malfunction cure you're speaking of or are they somehow curing a double-feed type malf with arms outstretched also? If so, I can't see doing that.

My initial thoughts are the new technique is stupid, and a waste of time getting a gun quickly back into service. I suppose I'd really need to be there and see and try it for myself.

Perhaps I'm already doing what you've been taught or somewhere in between, however. My "tap, rack, bang" is done pretty darn quickly with only minor bending of my elbows.

I should have clarified, no they are generally bringing the gun into the body with the elbows bent for a phase 2 or level 2 type malfunction. As far as I can tell, it isn't possible to fix that with the gun pointed forward and arms outstretched. They are doing the tap, rack and ready with the gun pointed forward, and I'm thinking I have no problem with this.

I am trying my best not to dismiss it only because other people aren't doing it, I don't wanna be they guy that gets stuck in less efficient ways of doing things because "it isn't my way" or "I've always done this." I firmly believe that good ideas can come from anybody, and it doesn't just have to be from a Larry Vickers class or some other big name trainer.

[Coal Dragger]

Well it will not hurt you to learn their way to the best of your ability and then compare it later with your previous or preferred way. Determine which works best and move on. I've done this professionaly in my line of work being instructed in train handling by very experienced engineers, and found many methods of accomplishing the same thing, picked the ones that worked best for me and continue to refine my technique.

Personally bringing the gun back into the body or work space allows you to see what you're doing better, and gives you a shit load more leverage/strength to deal with an actual malfunction. That's just my take, even if it is "wasted motion" which I doubt, I'll still pick the method that gets the gun back where I can work on it more easily for reloading or malfunction clearing. The goal is to get the gun up again as fast as possible, in order to do that you should probably pick the most reliable method. I seat magazines more reliably closer in to my body, and I clear malfunctions more reliably that way too. I'll sacrifice that fraction of a second to make sure that magazine is seated well, or that I positively cleared that dud round or stoppage.