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Thread: What is a good "1st" AR around $850

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    A gunsmith that works at the range I visit explained the following:
    A. All the money people spend on "tricked-out ARs is mostly a waste."
    B. The AR system is really quite simple and the more complex you make it, the more breaking points.
    I stopped listening to people at the range/gunshop a long time ago(at least about gear and guns).
    Who was advocating he add rails, lasers, multiple sights, and a coffee maker? Even so, none of them interfere with the actual functioning of the gun, and do nothing but add versatility and weight. Or does a higher quality AR count as "tricked out"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    I am a Scientist (I experiment with all things).
    Yet the vast majority of professionals who test and use rifles say that there IS a difference.

    Will a Bushmaster be sufficient for most things? I don't know, probably. Are you getting a good value? Probably not. When a rifle built to a higher standard and assembled correctly costs one hundred dollars more than a Bushmaster(or often less if you're pricing Bushmasters at local shops), why bother?

  2. #32
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    Hi thopkins22

    Thanks for your reply, I am willing to be educated; however, I read a lot and unless I am missing some "hidden" source, the information on the web, gun mags, Police Forums, etc seems very mixed. I see no consensus. Maybe it is too early to really judge the durability of the Bushmaster (last few years). Mostly the problem seem to focus on systems (i.e., gas, bolt carrier, etc.). Hell, the plastic is not better, the barrel may last a few rounds longer (I doubt it on hbl)? The gun at the range is not a "story" I have seen and fired the weapon. I just do not believe a Colt is that much better or will be more durable

  3. #33
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    Before you buy, please read this thread-very knowledgeable group


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    Thanks for your reply, I am willing to be educated; however, I read a lot and unless I am missing some "hidden" source, the information on the web, gun mags, Police Forums, etc seems very mixed. I see no consensus. Maybe it is too early to really judge the durability of the Bushmaster (last few years). Mostly the problem seem to focus on systems (i.e., gas, bolt carrier, etc.). Hell, the plastic is not better, the barrel may last a few rounds longer (I doubt it on hbl)? The gun at the range is not a "story" I have seen and fired the weapon. I just do not believe a Colt is that much better or will be more durable
    Did you read my thread about the "day in the life of a BM dealer?"

    Have you reviewed the Chart and looked at the differences between BM and Colt?


    C4

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by .357sigger View Post
    I have a buddy that want to buy his first AR. I am well aware of the good stuff but those are a little beyond what he wants to spend. This will really only be a range gun because a shotgun is best for things that go bump in the night anyways...what would be the available options in his price range of $850? I was thinking maybe CMMG or ADS. All input is welcome. Thanks!
    By my calculations, you could get into the following for about $900:

    BCM upper
    LMT L7C2
    LMT BCG
    LMT CH
    BCM Double Heat Shield HG's

    This setup will run circles around any of the guns you have listed. Spend $50 bucks more for a night and day weapon.


    C4

  6. #36
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    Hi C4

    No, I missed those 2 threads, but I have read a thousand others, like the one I listed. Yes, there are differences, I agree; however, is mitigation cheaper still? I believe so.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    I see no consensus. Maybe it is too early to really judge the durability of the Bushmaster (last few years). Hell, the plastic is not better, the barrel may last a few rounds longer (I doubt it on hbl)? The gun at the range is not a "story" I have seen and fired the weapon. I just do not believe a Colt is that much better or will be more durable
    Consensus amongst AR owners? Of course not, nor will there ever be. I don't question whether or not 1 Bushmaster can make it to 30,000 without many problems. Will 500? 1000? I think it's fair to say that the companies who build to higher standards will turn out fewer lemons in that same run of rifle. Especially if the guns are going to be run hard.

    I think you CAN however find consensus amongst the better known firearm trainers in regards to which guns fail more consistently. Do Colts go down? Obviously they do. With the regularity that many of the lesser brands do? No way.

    Edit....listen to Grant. Those threads he posted made things very clear for me.
    Last edited by thopkins22; 09-04-08 at 15:08. Reason: Fixed punctuation. And again to say listen to Grant.

  8. #38
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    thank you thopkins22

    I agree with you 100%. However, when you talk to people at Bushmaster that make the guns (ie, Jim Eden), you see a different picture. For one thing:
    Bushmaster is currently using the deeper feed ramps in the barrel extensions and receivers on all of our models and not just the M4 type barrels.
    This should be mentioned. Also, go to their web site and see that the bolt carriers machined of high quality gun steel - chrome lined for smooth bolt functioning and long life. They manufacture to mil. spec. or better, and magnetic particle inspect.

    I just think you should investigate (like I did) before you buy. If you want to spend more then ok; however, IMHO a Bushmaster will probably out last you. Do a few upgrades on bolt & buffer and is as good as a Colt.

    Come on, if there were big problems with Bushmaster, you would read it on Police Forums by the score. How many Police departments use Bushmaster? Our large city does, and I shoot with many of them at the range.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    No, I missed those 2 threads, but I have read a thousand others, like the one I listed. Yes, there are differences, I agree; however, is mitigation cheaper still? I believe so.

    Read those two threads first. Real eye openers.


    C4

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo556 View Post
    I agree with you 100%. However, when you talk to people at Bushmaster that make the guns (ie, Jim Eden), you see a different picture. For one thing:
    Bushmaster is currently using the deeper feed ramps in the barrel extensions and receivers on all of our models and not just the M4 type barrels.
    This should be mentioned. Also, go to their web site and see that the bolt carriers machined of high quality gun steel - chrome lined for smooth bolt functioning and long life. They manufacture to mil. spec. or better, and magnetic particle inspect.
    Interesting. Do you know what "high quality gun steel" is? Are you aware of what the US GOVT TDP calls out for BCG's and how they are to be made? Just as an FYI to you, BM does not do a lot of the things the TDP requires. So if you are not following the BASELINE .Gov standard (which should be considered the lowest quality that is acceptable in a fighting weapon) then what are you getting? Not quality, that is for certain.

    I just think you should investigate (like I did) before you buy. If you want to spend more then ok; however, IMHO a Bushmaster will probably out last you. Do a few upgrades on bolt & buffer and is as good as a Colt.
    I think if you believe what you are reading on the BM website, you should have done a little more research. And no, a few upgrades to the BM does make it a Colt or an LMT or a BCM or a Noveske.

    Come on, if there were big problems with Bushmaster, you would read it on Police Forums by the score. How many Police departments use Bushmaster? Our large city does, and I shoot with many of them at the range.
    First, police forums are a horrible place to get good info on guns. Why? Because they generally never shoot them! The local Sheriff's dept get exactly 61rds a rear to shoot. Remember that all weapon perform 100% sitting in the trunk of the cruiser.


    C4

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