Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: 3 Gun/Multigun as Proving Ground?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    9,904
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I think that competitive shooting is a good test of skill and technique, and a poor predictor of gear suitability for anything other than competitive shooting. Optics sort of bridge the two; you can see if the reticle picks up, and if you can get hits, but it won't tell much about durability, low-light or night performance, or non-obvious targeting suitability.
    I've seen too many people bring their defensive equipment to matches and have it take a dump on them to completely agree. I'm not saying it speaks to suitability for particular needs, but it certainly exposes casual use gear masquerading as defensive gear. It also exposes poor setup, tuning, maintenance, manufacturing defects (I once discovered an agency issued, factory .40 with a 9mm frame, which was a problem because the frame was keeping it from feeding correctly) and a host of other issues. I've lost count of the number of guns I've fixed over a plastic barrel at matches when they wouldn't make it through a stage, only to have them finish the match with no further malfunctions. The owner usually walks away with increased knowledge and confidence.

    For a $10-20 entry fee, that's a solid ROI.
    Last edited by glocktogo; 08-26-16 at 00:25.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    4,056
    Feedback Score
    0
    It's largely what made me leave the AK.

    I have been shooting ak's since I was a boy and had professional training. But I couldn't ignore that other rifles could get hits AND run reliably.
    I learned the ak was slower to run than many other rifles. Trying to get hits on a 300 yd steel torso target with an 7.62x39 AK firing russian ammi on a windy day for time? Yea...luckily I had a 3x scope but it took way too many rounds.

    Mind you several guys with RDS equipped AR's give up after not connecting at all at that range.

    The matches are a good way to keep up your gear and practice weapon manipulation under some stress.
    Last edited by Ron3; 08-27-16 at 08:32.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    517
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorinInTheWoods View Post
    So does anyone else think that competitive shooting like 3gun or multigun is a good way to test guns, optics, accessories and other gear? I recently thought that other than taking it to a class or running your own independent tests that it's a good way to evaluate a product or even a new shooting style/stance/grip. As far as evaluating a muzzle device, trigger, or optic I feel 3 gun is probably the best place since you're getting to put it through it's paces and you can kind of compare it to how others on the range are doing. They always say that if you want to break something give it to a 3 gun guy, but people are so concerned with durability tests, how about is this practical or does it feel good in use? That's awesome you can throw it on the ground run it over, and light it on fire and it still performs but is it a product that I'm going to actually enjoy using or is it one that's practical to use? I think 3 gun is a good way to evaluate this because you're going to be running around shooting at multiple targets at varying distances and you're able to get a real feel for how it performs.
    Most firearm enthusiasts simply don't shoot their guns and gear enough to really know how reliable or unreliable they really are.

    Competitions simply give most of us a fun means of using/testing our equipment. Heck I trust my Comp guns way more then my carry & hunting guns simply because I know how many rounds it takes to turn them from accurate to less accurate and reliable to unreliable. Heck I'll never put 10,000 rounds through my G42 or my 6.8 SPC. It's just not feasible.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    689
    Feedback Score
    0
    Ha who could afford 10K rounds of 6.8, but you are right that a lot of people don't test their guns out past taking it to a range and putting a box or two through it and firing it in a static and controlled manner. I'm not saying you need to go melt your barrel or see how many times you can bang it against a tree before something breaks off but for you night stand pistol a USPSA or IDPA match might be good to test it out, if you want to see how good your SHTF guns are go try them at a match.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,325
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    I've seen too many people bring their defensive equipment to matches and have it take a dump on them to completely agree. I'm not saying it speaks to suitability for particular needs, but it certainly exposes casual use gear masquerading as defensive gear. It also exposes poor setup, tuning, maintenance, manufacturing defects (I once discovered an agency issued, factory .40 with a 9mm frame, which was a problem because the frame was keeping it from feeding correctly) and a host of other issues. I've lost count of the number of guns I've fixed over a plastic barrel at matches when they wouldn't make it through a stage, only to have them finish the match with no further malfunctions. The owner usually walks away with increased knowledge and confidence.

    For a $10-20 entry fee, that's a solid ROI.
    Gotcha, agreed, though my perspective is coming from the completely opposite side: just because your gun can work for 30 seconds doesn't mean much, and just because your gear holds some stuff in a match doesn't mean that it will be suitable for much else.

    Competition weeds out inefficiencies, and that's good for the community.
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    7,965
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorinInTheWoods View Post
    So does anyone else think that competitive shooting like 3gun or multigun is a good way to test guns, optics, accessories and other gear? I recently thought that other than taking it to a class or running your own independent tests that it's a good way to evaluate a product or even a new shooting style/stance/grip. As far as evaluating a muzzle device, trigger, or optic I feel 3 gun is probably the best place since you're getting to put it through it's paces and you can kind of compare it to how others on the range are doing. They always say that if you want to break something give it to a 3 gun guy, but people are so concerned with durability tests, how about is this practical or does it feel good in use? That's awesome you can throw it on the ground run it over, and light it on fire and it still performs but is it a product that I'm going to actually enjoy using or is it one that's practical to use? I think 3 gun is a good way to evaluate this because you're going to be running around shooting at multiple targets at varying distances and you're able to get a real feel for how it performs.
    Yes overall its a pretty good tests of equipment and gear. As for durablity we throw guns in barrels bang them against barricades etc. Not a bad acutal use test.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    130
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    In general yes. With some exceptions. Some 3-gun triggers are probably on the light side for serious use. Most muzzle devices for 3-gun are so loud, that they are impractical for other purposes.

    Otherwise, 3-gunners treat guns and gear more harshly than most. It is interesting to watch someone show up at their first match with a gun all decked out with tidbits. Usually they wind up dissatisfied and next time their rifle is mostly slick.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    680
    Feedback Score
    0
    Between serious use gear and competition there is a lot of cross pollination for sure. Things proven in combat get used in competition and some competition gear gets refined and proven to the point it is combat ready. I have been shooting long enough to remember when the first aimpoints came to the competitive world - short battery life unreliable and fragile. Competition demands refined them to the point they were battle worthy.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    567
    Feedback Score
    0
    My last rifle class reminded me of the need to use at least a little blue loctite on somewhat important things .... like the safety lol.
    Dan Miami, FL

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Found a home.
    Posts
    1,144
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Competition as shown me the deficiencies of my gear and my interaction with it many times. The clock brings out nervousness in man and machine. Hard use combined with training reveals many more. Personal examples:
    I used to like Froglube but after getting 800 rounds into a 2000 round test I found out it wasn't so good [it gummed up everything].
    Same pistol, new test; found out at 600 rounds it didn't like one brand of cheap ammo when it got dirty. A feed ramp polish and throat job fixed it. Same test: one brand of magazine caused failure to go into battery.
    I would not have found any of this out in competition alone.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •