Intro to Radio Communications

[FloridaWoodsman]

Oh,,, btw,, people are always looking for low cost radios...

This radio is low cost and according to everyone on the yahoo group,,, high performance.

It's only 5 Watts but they are making a 20W amplifier for it. ...

When I think of the HF bands, somehow the words "high performance" and 5/20 watts don't go together. Sure it's a great sport to try to work the world on low wattage, but I'd rather spend more and get more watts in a single package rather than two pieces.

[tb-av]

True... but it seems like most people don't want to lug all that around. Even a Yaesu 897 at 100W. People don't want to haul that thing around. So what do you think going from 5W to 25W would do? It seems like a lot of people want a little more than a HT has to offer, but don;t want to spend the money of a serious setup much less haul it around every day or even on weekend outings.

It seems like most people want well under 100 mile range and probably under 50 mile. If you figure you get reliable 10 mile range on your HT and maybe a 20 mile connect. What do think 25W on the HF band would do? No better? IOW, if you said I have to pack light and connect reliably 40 miles and in. I am still weighing all these variables..

for instance I hear people talking just the other day...'sure you have a little auto tuner in your $1000 Yaesu but you will get better performance from a stand alone tuner with bigger caps and inductors' ... So I'm thinking, ok, even the more expensive portable units you are probably going to want to go modular when you use it as a base station. So now part of your $1000 investment is doubled up with two tuners. I've always leaned towards modular setups for most anything though... as long as everything plays nice together.

..but let's just say pick a manageable, packable antenna and add 25W to that radio... what do you expect it would do reliably in distance on your average suburban, slightly rural areas? I'm not talking about being up on a mountain or broadcasting across wide rivers, but some average tress to string an antenna up if need be or a suitable antenna like a buddipole. Have you got any idea what that might do? For voice... let's just keep it to voice as though you had to speak to another human.

[FloridaWoodsman]

...

It seems like most people want well under 100 mile range and probably under 50 mile. If you figure you get reliable 10 mile range on your HT and maybe a 20 mile connect. What do think 25W on the HF band would do? No better? IOW, if you said I have to pack light and connect reliably 40 miles and in. I am still weighing all these variables..

for instance I hear people talking just the other day...'sure you have a little auto tuner in your $1000 Yaesu but you will get better performance from a stand alone tuner with bigger caps and inductors' ... So I'm thinking, ok, even the more expensive portable units you are probably going to want to go modular when you use it as a base station. So now part of your $1000 investment is doubled up with two tuners. I've always leaned towards modular setups for most anything though... as long as everything plays nice together.

..but let's just say pick a manageable, packable antenna and add 25W to that radio... what do you expect it would do reliably in distance on your average suburban, slightly rural areas? I'm not talking about being up on a mountain or broadcasting across wide rivers, but some average tress to string an antenna up if need be or a suitable antenna like a buddipole. Have you got any idea what that might do? For voice... let's just keep it to voice as though you had to speak to another human.

The thing with HF bands is the irregularity. With 10W on CW mode, I was able to reach Long Island from central Florida with a dipole strung between the eaves of two houses, but it's not something I could count on. It just depends on the whims of the gods of the atmosphere and the time of day. So I'm putting my eggs in the 2-meter basket with the thought in mind that reliable talk with locals is going to be more important in a disaster than unreliable talk with someone halfway across the country on the HF bands. I happen to live in a flat region that is fairly dense with 2-meter repeaters, though, so you have to evaluate your own environment. If I step outside my house with my 5W Baofeng hand-held, I can get a repeater 30 miles away, but I have to go to an external antenna before I can reach my son 3 miles away on simplex. Most importantly, I can reach the repeaters that will be used by emergency volunteers during a disaster. I have recently acquired a 60W 2-meter and will be wiring up my car for it. I'm also experimenting with solar battery charging so I can use the more powerful unit in the house during a power outage.

Thank you for pointing out that little Chinese HF radio, though. I'll continue to watch their progress and might get one when they reach the version 2.0 stage.

[tb-av]

Thank you for pointing out that little Chinese HF radio, though. I'll continue to watch their progress and might get one when they reach the version 2.0 stage.

That's what I'm thinking too. I'm not one to trust the bleeding edge of Chinese tech just yet. I'm fine with the stuff they make after people in the know go through it. I like to see them score repeated shots rather than one long three pointer.

Let me ask you something... on the CW front.... what is the deal with those paddles and why people like them so much? I would like to know code but I've got a bad feeling it's going to take me looooong time to figure out. Also are you aware of people that might somehow use a computer to translate TEXT to CW so if maybe you could only connect via low power CW you still might be able to communicate. ... It just seems like everyone takes CW as a given and when I hear it right now, I can't tell what's going on. Like words, phrases, what ever. All I can tell is.... yep, I just heard morse code. Between the math and CW I'm not sure which one is going to blow my mind first. Is there some sort of helper app or easier way to do it than what I know about?

[FloridaWoodsman]

...

Let me ask you something... on the CW front.... what is the deal with those paddles and why people like them so much?...

I forgot Morse years ago. It was required way back when I got licensed. It was also a cheap way to get started. Technically, its advantage is that it gets out a stronger signal, since when the key is down, the transmitter is at full power with no superimposed modulation as with voice. Yes, you can do it now with a computer and a type of modem interface or sound card interface. The computer will interpret for you, assuming it is receiving clean code at a steady rate. But today, better technologies are out there for digital transmission.
http://www.arrl.org/digital-data-modes
If you are worried about the Internet going down, check into packet radio and radio based email systems.
Of course this adds extra complications. For an emergency, I want a simple system that I can put in someone's hands and show them how to use it in 5 minutes. I don't know that I even want the computer on my grab-and-go list.
It is an interesting hobby to explore the many possibilities, but in a crunch, I just want to keep in touch with local relatives, find out what's going on where, and be able to call for help to what's left of public services. I think the 2-meter covers that pretty well, particularly since some of the local repeaters have backup power.

[ag08]

I have read this entire thread, started studying for the Amateur Radio tech license, and researched all the civilian-available options for radio bands. To me, it looks like there is no communication option where the benefits outweigh the negatives. Can someone confirm or deny my thought processes where I eliminated each option?

Am I also reading correctly that any jackass with some basic scanning equipment can triangulate your location? I'm proficient in the use of brevity codes but there's no point in that if your position can be triangulated.

My use for comms would be a hurricane evacuation from Houston. My wife and I could possibly be in different cars on the way out of town with 4 million of our closest friends. I'm sure cell service will be completely overloaded.

FRS - low transmitting power, crappy hardware, few channels, there could possibly be hundreds of thousands of these radios on the road overwhelming the airwaves

CB - over crowded, poor transmission power

GRMS - buy a license for very few channels that I'm sure thousands would be using illegally thanks to GRMS/FRS combo radios

MURS - basically unavailable due to no good hardware short of repurposing old radios off eBay

Amateur Radio/HAM - best option for me I suppose, wife has not interest in getting licensed so I could transmit to her but she couldn't transmit, I have a real problem with the FCC making all your personal info available on their website, I also don't like how there is a local Houston website showing your last transmission location, also the apparent HAM culture of tattling to .gov is off putting, I don't need to talk to someone across the country

eXRS - would love to have a set of these radios, unfortunately the only supplier is defunct and their handsets are grossly overpriced for fragile units that no one supports now

FHSS - apparently the Motorola DTR radios are good and might work, can't find much info on them other than they are promoted for business use in the same building

Sat phone - wish I was made of money


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[tb-av]

I also don't like how there is a local Houston website showing your last transmission location,

How are they doing that?

Yes, you could be triangulated but what are the odds and will you be moving? It will also probably take more than a jackass to pull it off. Also if you think you are being tracked why are you transmitting? The point of learning and getting your license is to prepare so that in a lawless situation you will have an advantage which means you will employ otherwise illegal activity.

If the S has HTF and unless people know you have lots of money or valuables, it is highly unlikely they are going to be tracking you.

In a hurricane situation with certain qualifications you -might- be allowed back into your home area before others such that you can protect your home.

But yes if it's over the air, someone knows how to look at it. They usually are not the jackass variety and unless you are causing problems are highly unlikely to care what you are doing.

I tend to agree with you on the public info though. I wish it were not as detailed as it is. the bottom line though, if you own a home there is a ton of personal information about you readily available on line. So it's not like FCC is unique in that regard.

[kenny256]

This is something I am working on now in my preps...

I was wanting something that can be used hands free, in squad communication type setting.
for perimeter comunication and while doing a patrol/ just being a 1/2 to a mile away.

I have never had any experience in communication, and would just like to see what you guys who do know would recommend to use.

[sevenhelmet]

For what you suggest, I'd use a set of basic GMRS/FMS handheld motorola walkabout style radios. You can get headsets that come with them for quiet communication. They're unbelievably useful for everything from a day at the mall, to a camping or hunting trip, to (maybe) SHTF. They're inexpensive, take common AA batteries, and you can add more of them in different models (or even some HAM radios) to expand your net as you desire.

[Outlander Systems]

I have read this entire thread, started studying for the Amateur Radio tech license, and researched all the civilian-available options for radio bands.

http://gotenna.com

Turns your smartphone into a radio-based comm device.

I'm with you on some of the available options. I've pretty much settled on base+mobile+handheld CB radios to fill the gap.