Suggestions on getting newbies to not limp wrist pistols?

[cbx]

This summer I've made it a point to get as many new people and people who haven't shot in a very long time out. I've been successful so far. Several of them have caught the bug or gotten back in. I Show them some trigger and aiming control, breathing, that type of thing. The ladies especially get all jacked when they're clanging away on the steel at distance.

But I keep having this regular issue with them shooting a glock 19. I've had about 4 of them so far (men and women the two guys oldly enough own m&ps and both said well my smith doesn't do that) what looks like limp wristing. They don't hold the pistol firmly enough, and get malfunctions with range ammo. I know it's not the gun. I have about 3k rounds through it myself and and yet to get a failure.

I keep harping away on grip, but I can't seem to get my message across effectively. I explain how the reciprocating mass of the slide needs resistance from the frame to work properly and I get blank stares.....

I feel like its the only thing that I'm not teaching well. I'd like to eliminate the problem if possible.

Any suggestions?

[HeruMew]

Tis the way it is.

Glocks have this... Quirk.

I won't say it's a problem, per say, but I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't get some Malfs from limp-wristing my 26 when I first got it.

Thing is, people need to learn the proper methods from the get go. Not to say your corrections aren't adequate, or that they don't take you seriously, but they probably don't keep that open of a mind.

To them, what has worked for them has worked, why change it up to "force" something else to work?

While I understand, I also understand that if my G26 was limp wristing, what could I potentially do with any of my other handguns in a stressful situation. I was aware I had a technique problem, because I was open to the idea that my skill always has room for improvement. Some are wanting results at all levels of performance and skill.

Needless to say, I went back to Crawl. Started with my form, tried a couple new forms (IDF wide stance instinct shooting, weaver vs isosceles, tea and saucer) and I finally just stuck to what I learned from Mrgunsngear on one of his videos a few years or so ago, but started back at step one, and slowly worked it back up.

I show all new shooters this:


For some reason, they take him serious, maybe it's demeanor, or what-have-you; but it makes my job of helping them get on target so much easier.

Needless to say, I haven't had a limpwrist in a couple years unless forced.

With your glock 19, to show someone the difference, try and put on the beavertail backstraps on (if gen 4). Lets them get a high grip, and gives that counter "leverage" on the recoil.

[JHC]

When I've seen it, I ask the shooter to shake hands with me just as they are gripping the pistol. It's always this wimpy light handshake. Then I give them a pretty firm manly handshake back; far from maximum effort but pretty stout.

And I tell them to grip that pistol like I'm gripping their hand. It's worked every time (only three examples) I've tried it.

[jsharp]

'Limp wristing' usually isn't really that. It's inadequate grip pressure. Crush grip tightly enough to to bring on a tremor. Relax your grip until the tremor stops. It's a lot more grip pressure than most people think they need.

That hand shake method is one way to illustrate that. Another is to look at their hands immediately after they grip the pistol. If you don't see the grip texture on their palms it's very likely they don't have a tight enough hold.

If they can find a feature on the gun they can feel with the proper grip they'll know right away if the gun is moving around in their hands during recoil. They'll feel the feature move relative to their hands/fingers when firing.

[ramairthree]

The basics of stance, grip, and trigger pull handle it.

If they do those basically right it wipont limp wrist.

When working on grip,some will often rotate the elbows down as the exert more pressure on the lower part of their grip, allowing more muzzle flip, more bendy elbow recoil, etc.

Tell them to rotate their elbows up instead.
Cranks more grip strength into the meaty, upper and mid part of the grip. Less muzzle flip and bendy elbows.

I have seen the sentence "don't rotate your elbows down" correct more weak grips, muzzle flip, excessive recoil, and limp wristing than any other single sentence.

YMMV.
I was not a CAG or ST6 operator.
I am not a shooting instructer.
For all I know one big name shooting instructor is telling students to rotate their elbows down while standing on the chest of their supine range partner while shooting e-types between two down range cameramen,
And another is on a walkway in Japan demonstrating a rotating your elbows down until they touch really cool looking shooting position.

[pinzgauer]

Tis the way it is.

Glocks have this... Quirk.

I won't say it's a problem, per say, but I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't get some Malfs from limp-wristing my 26 when I first got it.

And the non-glock shooters are scratching our heads, or going: "quirk... Righttttt..."

Then you have the "squeeze the grip until your veins pop" stuff.

Meanwhile, we just shoot. Not saying limp writing is good form. But you should not have to wrestle the thing either

[Averageman]

Honestly, if this is happening with a G-19 and you have a 1911 A1 handy as soon as the issue showed itself I would pull out the 1911 and see if it occurs again. I've not seen a Glock Shooter do this, but plenty of 1911 shooters do this at first.
I skipped the G-19 when I went from 1911's to G-17's and then to a daily carry G-26. I have seen many novice 1911 shooters who do this pretty regularly and diagnosing this at times has driven me crazy.
It's a pretty easy way to show, "It's you, not the gun." Here's a way to fix that.
I would let the shooter extend their arm and place a cleared pistol in their grip at 9 O'Clock and hold the gun and their hand and say, "This is a sticky Door Knob, Turn it." When I got the grip strength I wanted through feeling the tension of their hands in my hands I would say "Stop, that's what we want." As far as grip strength on the gun goes Women catch on faster, but Men are going to be kind of "shamed" in to doing it right as soon as you call it "limp Wristing."
The answer is not changing guns, but changing technique. Skill Set is key.

[El Cid]

Maybe try the drill where the shooter holds a blue gun and you push them back using the muzzle. Works for stance but also may help with grip issues.

[Lefty223]

Here's what I do ... we have an outdoor range with a TALL sand backstop out at 180-yards. There are wood blocks cut from 4x4s, 6x6s or 8x8s pieces of wood beams that are spread out on the lower 3rd of the hill. I have my new or newer shooters shoot a mint S&W K22 8-3/8" barreled 22LR at them using accurate CCI std velocity ammo.

They do need to raise the front sight ALL the way out and up over the rear sight, so that the rear sight blade top is just covering the front sight base that is wider than the blade, of course. I have them shoot slowly, methodically, in single action only and the rule is that they MUST CALL their shots!

This one single point, suitable for any shooting sport, more than ANY other tip I know of, forces them to be concentrating on "where" the front sight is at the time the trigger breaks ... plus it checks/confirms their follow-through by the impact. Also with the sand hill, they can see errors in shooting form ... pulled down left, "dropped their hands", limp wristing, etc. ... all grossly exaggerated (for purpose) , due to the distance.

Here where I am, shooters who want a License to Carry Concealed in the neighboring metro city must pass a Police shooting exam. I have had friends - as they all have become friends - pass with flying colors and one who almost aced the proficiency test.

Try it. Now one MUST, of course, not attempt this with someone who does not possess a safe modicum of good firearms handling practice.

[P2000]

When I first shot a pistol I shot a G17 and a Beretta 92FS on the same day. I limp wristed both of them badly, having FTE every 3-5 rounds. Coming from a competitive archery background where you don't apply more than a couple ounces of grip pressure, I figured pistols were the same thing.

Later on I heard someone say the term limp wrist. This threw me off. On the next outing I tried to make my wrist tighter or stiffer but it didn't help. I eventually learned the only thing that helped was to squeeze my grip.
I'd tell new shooters to grip with a similar amount of grip to hanging from monkey bars. That should get the point across. Proper hand position in a 2 handed grip helps a lot too.