Geissele rail mounted bayonet lug prototype

[Firefly]

Does anyone know what the rationale for keeping the bayonet in service as a rifle mounted accessory is ? When was the last bayonet charge, Korea ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-m...nflict-2012-10


A buncha British dudes actually did that in '04. I dunno. Maybe we shouldnt totally dismiss bayonets but that FF rail attachment looks hideous and lame.

[Wake27]

American Marines did it in Iraq too. ****ing savage.


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[Hammer27]

Does anyone know what the rationale for keeping the bayonet in service as a rifle mounted accessory is ? When was the last bayonet charge, Korea ?

When's the last time the Navy sunk an enemy ship? Last time a fighter jet shot down and aircraft?

The rationale is that the mission of the infantry is to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver and/ or repel enemy assault by fire and close combat. That involves someone killing the enemy and holding ground, actually stepping over the bodies, and rooting them out of their positions. Tell me you don't want a bayonet when you're heading into a Chinese or Russian defensive position. The future is not necessarily going to be more of the same. Ditch the images of COIN this or asymmetric that. Start thinking about taking the fight to a professional, determined enemy who knows how to set up a PDF, who knows what fire support is, and who is willing to go toe to toe with another infantry unit.

[masakari]

When's the last time the Navy sunk an enemy ship? Last time a fighter jet shot down and aircraft?

The rationale is that the mission of the infantry is to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver and/ or repel enemy assault by fire and close combat. That involves someone killing the enemy and holding ground, actually stepping over the bodies, and rooting them out of their positions. Tell me you don't want a bayonet when you're heading into a Chinese or Russian defensive position. The future is not necessarily going to be more of the same. Ditch the images of COIN this or asymmetric that. Start thinking about taking the fight to a professional, determined enemy who knows how to set up a PDF, who knows what fire support is, and who is willing to go toe to toe with another infantry unit.

This is absolutely correct.
The people who say "when was the last bayonet charge" are the same who are ruining our main battle tank fleet, neglecting our anti shipping missiles, and defunding our air superiority aircraft programs.
The bayonet is less commonly used now because the nature of the war that we are fighting, but eventually when we go to war with China and Russia, they might be needed. Hopefully not, but it's possible.
Maybe by then we will have a lighter, rail mounted bayonet.

[wildcard600]

When's the last time the Navy sunk an enemy ship? Last time a fighter jet shot down and aircraft?

The rationale is that the mission of the infantry is to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver and/ or repel enemy assault by fire and close combat. That involves someone killing the enemy and holding ground, actually stepping over the bodies, and rooting them out of their positions. Tell me you don't want a bayonet when you're heading into a Chinese or Russian defensive position. The future is not necessarily going to be more of the same. Ditch the images of COIN this or asymmetric that. Start thinking about taking the fight to a professional, determined enemy who knows how to set up a PDF, who knows what fire support is, and who is willing to go toe to toe with another infantry unit.

If things degenerate into close quarters hand to hand fighting, no I don't want a bayonet. I want something far more effective at slashing and chopping, like a sharpened entrenching tool. Bayonets were not the answer 100 years ago, I don't see how they are anymore effective today.

Besides, how will the bayonet work with a suppressor ?

We need tanks, planes and ships to achieve parity with enemy forces that have tanks, plane and ships and is altogether a different argument.

[eodinert]

They should spend their efforts making a new style bayonet that mounts directly without an adapter, rather than adapt two different eras of hardware to fit together.

[MOLON AABE]

To use a sharpened entrenching tool, Tomahawk, or a club with spikes sticking out of it, requires you to sling or ditch your Rifle.
Bayonets have always been effective when used effectively.

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

[wildcard600]

To use a sharpened entrenched tool, Tomahawk, or a club with spikes sticking out of it, requires you to sling or ditch your Rifle.
Bayonets have always been effective when used effectively.

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

You have to ditch your suppressor to affix a bayonet, unless you want to issue everyone sword bayonets.

That brings us almost back to my original question, when was the last time bayonets were used effectively ? Even during the great war, shovels, shivs and clubs were used for the majority of close combat instead of the bayonet.

[MountainRaven]

You have to ditch your suppressor to affix a bayonet, unless you want to issue everyone sword bayonets.

That brings us almost back to my original question, when was the last time bayonets were used effectively ? Even during the great war, shovels, shivs and clubs were used for the majority of close combat instead of the bayonet.

From what I can tell, the last time bayonets were used effectively was 2011.

It doesn't matter whether you need to remove your suppressor, because you're not going to be using a suppressor.

Shovels and clubs were only used during the Great War when distances became too close to effectively use 18" blades attached to 48" long rifles (until you closed that distance, you were using a rifle with a bayonet on it).

Hell, if we were serious about using our bayonets to stab people, we wouldn't be issuing bowie knife wire-cutters.

And that's one of the things about bayonets: You don't actually need to stab anyone with a bayonet to be effective with it. Bayonets are effective because they are psychological weapons, because mounting bayonets inspires murderous courage in those who use them and abject terror in those who face them. It is as close as we get today to having someone walk into the middle of a battle line, unsheath their sword, and throw the scabbard away.

[Hammer27]

If things degenerate into close quarters hand to hand fighting, no I don't want a bayonet. I want something far more effective at slashing and chopping, like a sharpened entrenching tool. Bayonets were not the answer 100 years ago, I don't see how they are anymore effective today.

Besides, how will the bayonet work with a suppressor ?

We need tanks, planes and ships to achieve parity with enemy forces that have tanks, plane and ships and is altogether a different argument.

Sharpened e-tool is better than a bayonet? What bayonet were you issued? Last I checked penetration kills more effectively than slashing. Penetration through soft body armor with a shovel isn't going to work out.

To paint the picture... The year is 2038, USSR 2.0 crossed into Latvia and forced Article 5 to come into effect. You're a LCpl 0311 assaulting a defensive position. 81mm and 60mm mortars have suppressed the enemy while your company's M240's have pounded them with direct fire. The mortars lifted moments ago as you pushed into their MSD, your squad picks up the IDF with their M32's and M203's. As you buddy rush closer and closer to the defensive position the M240's shift and eventually cease. It's just your organic weapons now. You're within hand grenade range of the dug in position...your buddy screams out:
"I'm going to throw a frag!"
-"Roger!" you reply as you pick up the rate of fire with your M27
"Prepping Frag!" He's getting his death grip on the M67 now, his rifle is on the muddy ground next to him to enable a good throw
"Roger! Changing Mag!" You keep up the bursts then do a hasty reload
"Turkey peek!" He screams...you acknowledge with more bursts and less pauses
He throws the frag, you bury your face into the earth as it goes off.
You and your buddy rush into the position, weapons on burst or auto, these aren't precisely aimed shots of the riflemen of yore, these are assault fires...

Do I want a bayonet on my rifle or a the rifle on my back and a shovel in hand?


Remove your suppressor? First off, this mount doesn't preclude the use of a suppressor. Secondly, no infantryman is going to be running around with a suppressor. It is irrelevant in this context.
Bayonets work. Sharp steel kills people. Sharp steel helps me in a pill box, or a trench, or an urban environment. Again, we're not talking Iraq in 2011. We're talking peer to peer fight. Look into trench fighting a bit deeper and we'll see that bayonets were not eliminated, they were supplemented and evolved during the First World War. The current issue bayonet (at least in my service) had a lot of thought put into it. It's an excellent choice, not an antiquity.