US Government agencies' handguns

[Slater]

Looking at the myriad of US Govt. agencies that employ handgun-armed personnel/agents (FBI, Border Patrol, US Marshals, TSA, Bureau Of Prisons, and no doubt scores of others), is there any one brand/manufacturer that predominates or is it just a patchwork of Glocks, SIG's, S&W's, Berettas, etc.?

[ToddG]

The popularity game will vary a bit depending on whether you're talking number of guns in service vs. number of agencies, whether you include all the OIGs and small agencies (I once sold a federal agency all four of their pistols ), whether you count authorized-but-not-issued guns, etc.

By pure quantity, it's fairly evenly split between Glock, SIG, and HK. However, almost all of HK's guns are in the hands of CBP ... they have very little market penetration beyond that agency, at least right now.

Glock and SIG both have some big agencies and many little agencies. SIG probably has Glock beat in terms of number of agencies issuing (since so many of the OIGs and small agencies are run by retired USSS guys, who tend to choose SIGs for their agencies). SIG also probably has Glock beat in terms of number of pistols, especially if you count USCG (which is part of DHS and has over 15,000 SIGs).

Of course, you also have agencies like DOE (which has a hodge podge of different guns in different locations), Bureau of Prisons (ditto), and Federal Reserve Bank (ditto).

It's also important to understand why Glock, HK, and SIG are so predominant. Currently, all three have existing open contracts (Glock with US Capitol Police, the other two with ICE). So a government agency can buy a certain models of Glocks, HKs, or SIGs without going to a competitive procurement ... they just buy off the contract and don't have to justify their choice beyond that. For example, when FBI's contract with Glock ran out, FBI didn't even bother to re-compete it. They just buy off the Capitol Police contract.

[Slater]

Do you see S&W's M&P series making any inroads into this market?

[cathellsk]

In the BOP Rugers dominate with some Berettas too. Most recent contract was with Ruger again. There are also Glocks, SIGs, Berettas, and S&Ws used by SORT.

[ToddG]

Do you see S&W's M&P series making any inroads into this market?

Yes, but it's a tough sell in no small part because of the aforementioned contract issue. Agency wants .40-cal Glocks, they just buy them. Agency wants an M&P, it has to go through the entire public solicitation process. That's expensive, time consuming, and (at least in theory) could result in the agency getting a gun other than the one it wants.

The FRB Board of Governors was the first federal agency to adopt the M&P, and I believe at least one of the banks has bought them, too. BEP just switched to them. Part of DOE is probably getting M&P45's soon.

One large agency is on the cusp of approving the M&P as a personally owned on- and off-duty weapon, but budget issues have held up testing.

At least two other agencies are informally testing the gun, but any switch to the M&P would have to happen as part of a formal procurement which means fair & open competition.

[HighSpeedDreams]

Is also utilizing HK's (P2000).

I don't know if you were including them under CBP (which they technically are now) when you mentioned it.

[Sidewinder6]

Todd has good info on the procurement process. Also, there are 64 Federal LE agencies give or take. There are always going t be pockets of any organization that needs something different. It is sort of like being in the kitchen cabinet business as long as there are women.

[John Hearne]

It would be a mistake to think that Federal agencies are a the leading edge of much in weapons selection. If you look at the issue historically, the Feds were the last folks to adapt the Glock and that happened only after the FBI made it "ok." You see so many Sigs in Federal service because they offered the DA/SA design which everyone thought was "safer."

If you look at my agency, we originally selected the Glock as a duty weapon. We went to far as to issue them to a Park and check public opinion to make sure it didn't upset them that we were carrying semi-autos. (I'm not making this up)

When it came time to buy the pistols, Sturm Ruger protested and argued that there had not been a competitive contract issued for the purchase and that they wanted a shot at it. The allocation to buy all of the semi-auto pistols was set to expire on September 30 with the start of a new fiscal year.

In a "last ditch" to make sure we got semi-autos, the decision was made to piggyback off of the DEA contract, bypassing the need for an open competition. Sigs had been tested earlier in a semi-formal process and had been considered "ok" but with the Glock being preferred.

The only "progressive" adaption of any firearms platform I've seen is the Secret Service's selction of the FN-90. I was told that was a very unpopular decision but one that proceeded because a high-level decision maker thought the gun was cool. I don't know of any other Federal agencies that issue or use the FN-90.

Personally, I'd love to see the M&P get a foothold in the Federal market. As a "system" of duty pistol, it is a great design. I wish they'd at least allow the private purchase, I'd ditch my Sig in a heart beat.

[ToddG]

It would be a mistake to think that Federal agencies are a the leading edge of much in weapons selection.

While I understand what you're saying, I'd have to disagree a bit. You're painting with too broad a brush. Fed LE, like state and local LE, varies a lot from agency to agency. Some are extremely progressive, some are stuck so far back in time it's a wonder they aren't using cap & ball revolvers.

The SIG's popularity wasn't based on safety. It was based on the fact that, 20 years ago, it was by far the highest quality mass produced gun on the market. Simple parts interchangeability was unheard of before the P220. From an agency standpoint, that made it much easier to maintain and repair a large fleet of guns. No fitting, no machine work, just take the broken frazenstat out and put a new frazenstat in.

While I think of Glock's design as more evolutionary than revolutionary, its impact on the handgun market -- and especially the LE market -- truly was revolutionary. The entire industry has changed the way it designs, builds, and sells its guns because of Glock.

I don't know of any other Federal agencies that issue or use the FN-90.

USSS isn't the only one.

[DANGER CLOSE]

how long has the usms been using glocks for?

what did the fbi do to make it ok?

just wondering.