US Government agencies' handguns

[Iraqgunz]

Todd,

Just of curiousity (not trying to be a sniper) where did the USCG figure come from? When I left the USCG in Sep 2005 the transition had only been going a short while. since the USCG only has approx. 44K personnel in the active and reserve side of the house that number seems very high. Especially when you consider that in the USCG most personnel share a weapon because the CG has so few. For example when I was in the Gulf a 110' cutter did not have enough sidearms for all crewmembers. When I was in Guam we had 3 rifles, 3 shotguns and 12 pistols. Needless to say there were more than that aboard that cutter as well.

The popularity game will vary a bit depending on whether you're talking number of guns in service vs. number of agencies, whether you include all the OIGs and small agencies (I once sold a federal agency all four of their pistols ), whether you count authorized-but-not-issued guns, etc.

By pure quantity, it's fairly evenly split between Glock, SIG, and HK. However, almost all of HK's guns are in the hands of CBP ... they have very little market penetration beyond that agency, at least right now.

Glock and SIG both have some big agencies and many little agencies. SIG probably has Glock beat in terms of number of agencies issuing (since so many of the OIGs and small agencies are run by retired USSS guys, who tend to choose SIGs for their agencies). SIG also probably has Glock beat in terms of number of pistols, especially if you count USCG (which is part of DHS and has over 15,000 SIGs).

Of course, you also have agencies like DOE (which has a hodge podge of different guns in different locations), Bureau of Prisons (ditto), and Federal Reserve Bank (ditto).

It's also important to understand why Glock, HK, and SIG are so predominant. Currently, all three have existing open contracts (Glock with US Capitol Police, the other two with ICE). So a government agency can buy a certain models of Glocks, HKs, or SIGs without going to a competitive procurement ... they just buy off the contract and don't have to justify their choice beyond that. For example, when FBI's contract with Glock ran out, FBI didn't even bother to re-compete it. They just buy off the Capitol Police contract.

[Bigun]

VA Police issue the Beretta 92D and the new contract went out for SIG 229 9mm DAK trigger to replace them as we wear out the Beretta's and for expanding depts, since Clinton made it against the law for us to sell off our pistols we are going to have mixed issue untill none of the Beretta's are serviceable. There was also some talk of the P90 as a limited issue patrol carbine. But still nothing definate.

[ToddG]

Just of curiousity (not trying to be a sniper) where did the USCG figure come from?

My 2004 and 2005 bonus checks.

[Iraqgunz]

That surprises me. no shit. We were always short weapons and the fielding process seemed to be on a slow boat to China.

My 2004 and 2005 bonus checks.

[ToddG]

I think that was part of the reason USCG was so involved in the DHS/ICE testing. They volunteered a bunch of guys to be proctors, babysitters, etc. for the test in Altoona. Some of the Chiefs were really involved and I used to speak to them on a weekly basis.

For whatever reason, USCG took delivery of all the guns before deploying them in large numbers. It took SIG more than a year to deliver them.

FWIW, USCG placed the very first order that came about from the ICE contracts. The moment the ink was dry, they said "we want 12,000 pistols." Then a little while later they said they needed 3,000 more.

[d90king]

What's the story with the Springfield Pro? I thought the FBI also used them?

[coltm4223]

A contingent of Fed Agents in the DOE haved issued the P220 since 1989 with quality concealment leather.

[ToddG]

A contingent of Fed Agents in the DOE haved issued the P220 since 1989 with quality concealment leather.

Said contingent now planning to switch to the M&P45 ...

[dwhitehorne]

We USPP got our P2000's from the Postal Service. Rumor was the Postal Inspectors bought P2000's to transition and got sued by Sig. Sig won and the Postal service had 100's of P2000's they were barred from using. We had just started to transition from P7's to the USP compact and bought the Postal Inspector weapons from them. Third had rumor from the firearms staff, but it is probably true since it is so typical of the USG

[ToddG]

Close but not exactly.

USPS has its own policies regarding procurements since they are quasi-governmental.

Their policy says that if two items are close to identical (in terms of performance) during an evaluation, a US-made product gets a certain "price bonus" applied to the equation when they calculate best value. So in other words, if you bid $500 they based their decision as if it were costing $470 (but they still paid $500).

USPS evaluated a number of guns and came down to a near tie between the P2000 and the P229R. The P2000 scored higher on their tests, but by a fairly small amount (a few percentage points). The H&K was also bid at a cheaper price. So, USPS signed a contract with H&K, placed their order, and received their first shipment very quickly.

BUT, when you calculated the made-in-the-USA price adjustment, the SIG was "cheaper" even though it cost more actual dollars. SIG raised the issue and USPS voluntarily canceled their H&K contract, awarding a new contract to SIG. The 500 or so P2000's that USPS had already bought were sold (inter-agency) to the Park Police.