The Vltor A5 System

[Clint]

So if you guys did it over again, would you pick an A5 system with the green sprinco spring or just a carbine length buffer tube with one of Slash's heavy buffers (or any heavy buffer)? Mid-length gas system I presume.

I would like to build a suppressed AR with a 16" barrel and mid-length gas system (using a Surefire SOCOM suppressor). The fact many have had issues with their set ups make me lean towards paying for the new Knights SR-15 with the Mod 2 gas system. Seems more optimized for suppressed use.

One big advantage of the A5 is the 4 weights it contains vs the 3 in the carbine. For reference, the rifle buffer contains 5+ weights and disks.

The internal moving weights are what make a buffer a BUFFER instead of just a spring guide and bump stop.

A stainless steel body is heavier than aluminum, but it can't have more moving weights inside than 3 tungsten, and therefore can't be a better buffer.


The rifle spring has advantages and options vs the carbine setup, which is a compromise in both spring and buffer.


Along with the KAC, our soon to be released 16" OPTIMUM barrel is worth a look, especially for mixed or dedicated suppressed use.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...gth-Gas-System

[firefighter37]

I have found that the A5 vastly improves the perceived recoil on my suppressed SBRs. I run an A5H4 on almost everything suppressed. On my 16" midlength gas unsuppressed BCM upper, I run an A5H3. I have not found a single upper that will not run on an A5H3 with 5.56 pressure ammo.

On a side note, I wonder if SmugPePe is reading this thread...

Forgot to add, all SBRs run LMT Enhanced carrier with regular bolt, and I only use Sprinco Green springs.

[Kenneth]

Double tap.

[Kenneth]

Build 1
Sionics 11.5" reduced gas port + A5H3 + LMT-E carrier + Sprinco Green

Build 2 (waiting on the stamp)
BCM 14.5" mid length + A5H2 + LMT-E carrier + standard rifle spring

Build 3
Aero Precision 16" Mid Length + A5H1 + LMT-E carrier + Sprinco Green

Build 1 is exactly what I want to build. I just wish I could shoot one before I did. How is the recoil suppressed/not suppressed? Not recoil per say but the muzzle jump?


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[abso]

Build 1 is exactly what I want to build. I just wish I could shoot one before I did. How is the recoil suppressed/not suppressed? Not recoil per say but the muzzle jump?


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Would it make sense if I told you it was just "standard suppressor muzzle rise"? It recoils more than my Tikka 6.5 CM with a TB Ultra 7, but that is a 12lb gun and has a barrel over twice the length; not exactly apples to apples. I have a direct attach Liberty Triumph on the 11.5" which is never taken off so I won't speculate what it would be with a flash hider/comp. There is still muffled muzzle rise, but it isn't as severe as my Colt 6920 (bone stock).

I honestly don't pay a whole lot of attention to recoil, I don't run 3 gun and its not a race gun of any kind. I would tell you it is exactly what you'd expect though. If you've read through the forums about the A5/LMT-E carrier, my experience mirror what has been said already.

[Kenneth]

Would it make sense if I told you it was just "standard suppressor muzzle rise"? It recoils more than my Tikka 6.5 CM with a TB Ultra 7, but that is a 12lb gun and has a barrel over twice the length; not exactly apples to apples. I have a direct attach Liberty Triumph on the 11.5" which is never taken off so I won't speculate what it would be with a flash hider/comp. There is still muffled muzzle rise, but it isn't as severe as my Colt 6920 (bone stock).

I honestly don't pay a whole lot of attention to recoil, I don't run 3 gun and its not a race gun of any kind. I would tell you it is exactly what you'd expect though. If you've read through the forums about the A5/LMT-E carrier, my experience mirror what has been said already.

Just trying to get an idea of what to expect. I am gonna build a 11.5 reduced gas port, LMT E carrier, an A5H3, and a silencerCo Omega.

I have a 14.5 with a H2 and a battlecomp that's pretty smooth.


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[tom12.7]

Just a few quick points to add here.
If the base non suppressed AR has issues in failing to complete the cycle with a conventional rifle action system, then you need to look into some base issues for a reason why without masking issues by changing the spring to one with increased tension levels as a solution.
There are a few timing events that we may want to look into to improve function overall. We want to maximize the time duration it takes to initiate unlocking. We don't want to hit the hammer too hard with the ramp transition, the time under the ramp aids hammer reset. Bolt over travel in time duration to the magazine needs to be higher to insure proper round presentation by the magazine, the magazine is not instantaneous in function, it actually takes time. This is not a comprehensive list at all, there's many things that could be added to this. This is intended to keep this short.
There are conditions that we can run into that can need more carrier speed. Examples like suppressor fouling, certain sand tests, etc.. That does not mean that the cyclic rate needs to jump up for these by a large margin. As an example, many suppressed weapons may benefit with an increase in cyclic rate by 25-50 RPM when clean, that allows them to run towards the base timing events, if done as correctly as possible, towards the base timing as fouling accumulates. For 5.56 base ARs, most any can exceeds that rate, and most are better suited with an increase in reciprocating mass to keep the timing of events in check.
Let's say you have a platform that "feels" good? This example system may work with a combination of either a Colt rifle spring with an A5H1, or a SpringCo green with an A5H0. Both "feel" good, but of the two both have distinct timing events. Of the two options provided, what combination would tend to help timing events more than the other? Believe it, or don't, this is a real world question that comes up repeatably.
This is just a partial FYI, not comprehensive at all.

[MSparks909]

I may run counter to the grain here, but I actually prefer the lighter A5H1 buffers to the A5H2/H3 buffers on my sample of 2 16" middies. One is a Daniel Defense and one is a BCM. I felt that the A5H2/H3 started impacting my split times more than the increase in reliability was worth it. Therefore I switched both to the A5H1 buffers (Carbine H2 weight). I need to do more testing with a shot timer at targets from 7-100 yards with all 3 buffers but based on initial impressions I prefer the A5H1. I understand choosing the heaviest buffer that will reliably run with your ammo choice, but in my experience I did not like the additional recoiling mass associated with the heavier buffers. YMMV.

ETA I'm running standard VLTOR rifle springs. I may get a Sprinco Green to try to see what I end up preferring when I get to put the rifles on a shot timer.

[SmugPePe]

As summoned, SmugPePe appears!

(Reading completed)

No comment so far. Monitoring thread...

[WS6]

Just a few quick points to add here.
If the base non suppressed AR has issues in failing to complete the cycle with a conventional rifle action system, then you need to look into some base issues for a reason why without masking issues by changing the spring to one with increased tension levels as a solution.
There are a few timing events that we may want to look into to improve function overall. We want to maximize the time duration it takes to initiate unlocking. We don't want to hit the hammer too hard with the ramp transition, the time under the ramp aids hammer reset. Bolt over travel in time duration to the magazine needs to be higher to insure proper round presentation by the magazine, the magazine is not instantaneous in function, it actually takes time. This is not a comprehensive list at all, there's many things that could be added to this. This is intended to keep this short.
There are conditions that we can run into that can need more carrier speed. Examples like suppressor fouling, certain sand tests, etc.. That does not mean that the cyclic rate needs to jump up for these by a large margin. As an example, many suppressed weapons may benefit with an increase in cyclic rate by 25-50 RPM when clean, that allows them to run towards the base timing events, if done as correctly as possible, towards the base timing as fouling accumulates. For 5.56 base ARs, most any can exceeds that rate, and most are better suited with an increase in reciprocating mass to keep the timing of events in check.
Let's say you have a platform that "feels" good? This example system may work with a combination of either a Colt rifle spring with an A5H1, or a SpringCo green with an A5H0. Both "feel" good, but of the two both have distinct timing events. Of the two options provided, what combination would tend to help timing events more than the other? Believe it, or don't, this is a real world question that comes up repeatably.
This is just a partial FYI, not comprehensive at all.

My base issue was that if any fouling is on the feed lips of the mag, the milspec spring was too weak to strip the round. F that noise, I use sprinco now and am failure free.