Does 12ga birdshot behave just like a slug at close range?

[AndrewWiggin]

Yes as individual pellets. As a solid mass? You seem to be getting bent out of shape by my comment. Your post is on the myth of bird shot acting like a slug. As I stated above, I have never heard that in any other form than a cut shell. So if you repeat your experiment with a cut shell and have a different result, maybe there is some truth to the myth.

The only way for it to ACT like a solid mass is for it to BE a solid mass. Cut shells don't do that. They just put a thin layer of plastic between the shot and the tissue. They also have the added benefit of producing a stoppage in a pump or auto or leaving an obstruction in your barrel and blowing it up in any shotgun.

[Inkslinger]

The only way for it to ACT like a solid mass is for it to BE a solid mass. Cut shells don't do that. They just put a thin layer of plastic between the shot and the tissue. They also have the added benefit of producing a stoppage in a pump or auto or leaving an obstruction in your barrel and blowing it up in any shotgun.

Well, if you're not will to test all possible scenarios, should we say "myth plausible"?

ETA: emoji to keep it lighthearted.

[Kain]

How far away from the muzzle were you when you were shot?

More than 20 inches. Lol.
I honestly don't know. At most I was probably 40 maybe 50 feet away. Possibly as close as 30. I didn't walk it off, was kind of too pissed to think about that. More concerned with taking the assholes 12 gauge and inserting it in his forth point of contact sideways.

[Omega9]

Well, if you're not will to test all possible scenarios, should we say "myth plausible"?

ETA: emoji to keep it lighthearted.

Why don't you do your own test and post the results to prove him wrong instead of critiquing other members tests?

[Leaveammoforme]

Why don't you do your own test and post the results to prove him wrong instead of critiquing other members tests?

I've done lots of birdshot testing. Every test was completed inadvertently but results are still of value.

Pasters On A Stick Test

Set up-

Be lazy and leave a roll of pasters on one of the sticks of a threat target frame. Doesn't matter which stick, your choice. Place target frame where it will be engaged in the 10-15 yards range.

Test procedure-

Run a few shooters through any scenario of your liking that required a birdshot shell shot somewhere near the pasters on a stick.

Results-

Someone yanked a shot and hit the test medium. Begin peeling back the roll and observe how deep the shot penetrated. Be amazed.

[T2C]

More than 20 inches. Lol.
I honestly don't know. At most I was probably 40 maybe 50 feet away. Possibly as close as 30. I didn't walk it off, was kind of too pissed to think about that. More concerned with taking the assholes 12 gauge and inserting it in his forth point of contact sideways.

Glad you survived the incident. 30' is close; luck must have been with you that day.

In 1998 I investigated a self defense shooting involving a shotgun. The damage I saw at the autopsy looked like what we saw in Mr. Wiggin's video with all the shot staying inside the suspect. The suspect was 12' from the shooter. The extra 18' must have saved the day for you.

[williejc]

Mr. Wiggins's testing has provided us with good information. I'd like to see the same type experiment with #4 lead shot, which used to be a favorite for many duck hunters.

[AndrewWiggin]

I'll see what I can do. The results may be less conclusive. I don't believe that 10 feet makes a huge difference in penetration and even if a load could penetrate adequately at contact range but not at ten feet, it would be unsuitable for defense as you don't exactly want to have to use your shotgun like a bangstick for sharks. That said, this is an excellent article detailing the relative penetration of a variety of different shot sizes and powder charges: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

[Inkslinger]

Would you say there is a difference in performance between your test at contact distance and this test with a cut shell?

https://youtu.be/G_hRw39pt6s

[williejc]

Mr. Wiggins, thanks for the link above in post #28. It has convinced me that regular birdshot charges are unacceptable for home defense purpose. In this age of super doped up criminals, depending on any birdshot--even my #2 or #4 favorites--might put one at risk. For years I loaded my riot shotgun with #4 or #1 buck but now use Federal l.e. low recoil 00. The shogun now has 2nd instead of 1st status. This next comment is thread drift. I've switched from shotgun to the AR for home defense. Years of study here plus an arthritic condition has motivated to adopt the AR. One thing I miss is that when I mount a shotgun, the load hits where I look. Not so yet with the M4.