Opinions on Beretta 92 (Vertec)?

[HK45]

Thats a very convincing and well thought out statement. You must be on your High School debate team.

[ToddG]

Discuss the issue, not one another or people's debate styles. Thank you.

[rubberneck]

I will be contrary and say I think there are a lot better pistols available than Beretta's. It's an old design and it shows. Bulky, poor trigger, not a very good gun games pistol if that's what you are interested in. Even worse for CCW. There is a reason Beretta's are not very popular anymore and it has a lot to do with design and customer service.

The 92 was designed in 1976, 65 years after the US military adopted the 1911 and 5 years before Gaston Glock created the first Glock. How that qualifies as an old design is beyond me. I suppose if you are talking in relation to the XD's and M&P's of the world you would have a point but then the trade off is that the new designs don't have the established track record of the 92. The 1911 variants represent an outstanding choice as a sidearm despite the fact that the design is pushing 100 years.

As far as game guns goes several top shooters have risen to the top of the sport while driving a 92 variant (Dave Olhasso, Ernie Langdon, Super Dave Harrington and Ben Stoger come to mind). Granted the striker fired guns are all the rage but it is still the man behind the gun that makes the difference. The ironic thing is that by your screen name I can assume that you are a H&K fan. I cannot recall a single top shooter, except maybe Bruce Gray (even he gave up on that design in favor of Sigs), doing anything of note with a HK in competition.

[evilmonkey]

[QUOTE=HK45;222174]...........

Any way to get back on topic I know of two people who use it for IDPA and they love it! The one guy won a regional match shooting SSP expert with it so in the right hands the berreta can be a damn good gun for IDPA. Personally I Shoot my Glock 17, I tried shooting with a 34 but I always shot better with the 17.








Off topic comments removed -- gotm4

[DocGKR]

Big for caliber
Insipid safety location and direction of movement
Trigger issues including long trigger pull and need for DA/SA transition
Frame and slide longevity issues compared to other designs
Potential locking block issues
Reduced mag capacity compared to other similar size pistols (ie. G17, M&P)

Hmm...I think I'll pass.

[JonInWA]

I'd like to weigh in, but I'll have to qualify my response, as my Beretta 92 experiences are limited to the 92F, 92D, and 92 Compact L Type M pistols, not the Vertec.

Out of the pistols above, my "keeper" is the 92D, with Trijicon sights and Falcon Ergo Extreme Duty grips. It has a buttery smooth trigger, out of the box, and I've literally never had a malfunction of any sort with it. With the right holster (for me, either a Kramer IWB or an Orca IWB) the gun works just fine as a concealed carry gun-it honestly is not all that difficult to carry concealed.

It's weight is a mixed blessing-while it beautifully absorbs recoil forces, by the same token there's little energy left over to help "steer" the gun to a second target.

Mine has the "second generation" locking block, good for around 17,000 rounds-so I'm not overly concerned about its longevity.

Since I normally download my Glock G17/G19 magazines by a round or two to facilitate tactical reloading and to extend tube/spring life, I'm not too concerned over the 15 round capacity of Beretta 92 magazines. Frankly, I don't consider myself underarmed with a 8 round 1911 magazine, or a 6 round revolver cylinder in most circumstances. For extrodinary circumstances, I tailor the amont of spare magazines carried to the situation.

Given my druthers, in most situations, I'd certainly prefer my Glock 17 or 19, due to their greater weather/environmental imperviousness, lighter weight, shorter trigger pull and easier maintenance protocols. But I certainly appreciate the Beretta 92 family, and would not feel ineffectual if restricted to a 92.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

Big for caliber

Absolutely.

Insipid safety location and direction of movement

Absolutely. All of my Berettas are "G" models which have a decocker-only function and cannot be put on safe (purposely or inadvertently).

Trigger issues including long trigger pull and need for DA/SA transition

This is one part training issue and one part mental block. While I'd agree it's a little easier to shoot a SFA or SAO gun, and it's definitely easier to teach people how to shoot SFA/SAO guns, an awful lot of very effective people -- whether we're talking operationally or competitively -- have been quite successful with DA/SA guns.

Frame and slide longevity issues compared to other designs

In .40-cal absolutely. I've never seen issues in the nines.

As an aside, I have a custom built 96G Elite chambered for 357 SIG. The frame cracked in multiple places within 5,000 rounds.

Potential locking block issues

This is a very complicated issue. The quick version:

• If you have a gun manufactured since 2000 or so, your locking block will far outlast any typical shooting regimen. Replacing the block every 20k rounds (which is also recommended by many other gun manufactures for their locking blocks, locking inserts, or whatever they call the equivalent part) should keep you running indefinitely.
• If you have an older locking block, it's definitely more prone to breakage.
• Regardless of the vintage of your locking block, some of them just break at low round counts for no discernible reason. While I was working there, the head engineer of Beretta USA flat out told me one afternoon, "No matter how much we improve it, some of them just break in less than 2,000 rounds." It's not common, but it happens.
• Once a locking block breaks in your gun, it will damage the slide in such a way that subsequent replacement blocks will last for shorter and shorter periods before they break. There are steps you can take to mitigate this but most people aren't aware of them or just don't bother.

Reduced mag capacity compared to other similar size pistols (ie. G17, M&P)

Absolutely.

[Sam]

I use to think the Pizza gun was unshootable due to the DA/SA and other baloney that people like Jeff Cooper wrote in gun magazines. Then I witnessed shooters like Langdon, Harrington, Green and Hackathorn debunked the myth. Since then I bought and shoot two Pizza guns, both G models 9mm, Vertec and Centurion. I have extra locking blocks too

[signsrup]

Thanks to all for the info and opinions.

Since I started the thread, i've shot an M&P 9, and a 17. I didn't like the M&P trigger, but I had just shot about 100 rounds in my 19, so of course it's going to feel "different".

I don't know why, but I shot my 19 consistently better than the 17 also.

Todd, thanks for sharing your knowledge from the production side of these pistols.

[Slater]

Isn't the new 90Two supposed to address many of the durability/longevity issues? Someone told me it has 13 fewer parts than a standard 92 also, but I don't know if that's accurate or hearsay.