PA-10 First Impressions

[yellowfin]

I have one of their carbine lowers stock except for trigger with the BA 18" rifle gas barrel on one of their blem uppers I bought and assembled. And it has an SLR AGB.

Ah, so the barrel extension/BCG is common then, correct? That would be rather useful. If this works well then I could easily see myself putting together a good 6.5 or .260 upper for it. Let's say I did that--get a good barrel like from Criterion, put an adjustable gas block on it, etc. How much accuracy could I get out of it on having a top shelf barrel and good match ammo? This is something I don't know very much about, how much goes into a gas gun action that makes it more accurate.

[09stanggt]

Ah, so the barrel extension/BCG is common then, correct? That would be rather useful. If this works well then I could easily see myself putting together a good 6.5 or .260 upper for it. Let's say I did that--get a good barrel like from Criterion, put an adjustable gas block on it, etc. How much accuracy could I get out of it on having a top shelf barrel and good match ammo? This is something I don't know very much about, how much goes into a gas gun action that makes it more accurate.

The barrel, IMO, is what makes all the difference if you want something accurate. What I have been told by people that actually put these large frame ARs together is that there is no such thing as different barrel extensions. If you want to put together a 6.5 whatever, don't buy any BCG. Buy an Armalite as it will come with the smaller firing pin diameter and you won't have primer cratering. Just check the headspace to be certain it's safe.

I would expect sub-moa out of a rifle built this way using match ammo. Another topic on that is the fit of the barrel extension into the receiver. If it's loose, some people will use shim stock around the extension to make it a press fit or bed it with some flavor of Loc-tite. Some uppers, like BCM for an AR15 or Mega for large frame, have to be heated up to expand the aluminum for the extension to slip in.

The only other thing specific to using PSA is that you have to order DPMS low rail height when you order a rail. Mine is an MI keymod. When I built my upper PSA was still having teething problems with their uppers. Like the person with the bad chamber, that would suck.

[mic2377]

Yes, it is the barrel/bolt that is the most important. I would not recommend trying to put together a mixmaster large frame AR, especially swapping AR-10 and SR-25/LR-308 pattern parts, unless you have a better understanding of the system as a whole.

Back to the original topic - I had a moment of weakness, I picked up one of the complete 18" SS uppers with a MI rail and mid-length gas, as well as another blem lower. I hope to go to the range in the next 2 weeks to test-fire this one.

The barrel profile is a very nice profile and overall it is a very handy package. It was obviously test fired from the factory.

[yellowfin]

Now I have the whole rifle in my possession, and so far it looks good. I suppose I could wish that there wasn't a perceptible bit of wobble (a fraction of a milimeter, mind you, but there none the less) between the upper and lower, but for this price point ($649 total) I suppose I can't expect LaRue like tolerances. It is noticeably lighter than most .308 AR's I've seen and held, barely perceptible in weight difference versus a standard 5.56 gun.

Now, to this matter of adjustable gas blocks: any thoughts about the difference between the Odin Works adjustable versus the SLR Sentry 7? My dealer has the former in stock but some people have recommended the latter.

[09stanggt]

Shoot it before you put a penny more in it.

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[mic2377]

Exactly. Make sure it runs in stock, unaltered form.

[yellowfin]

OK, so very brief field test from today. It had a couple of hiccups from my reloads which I think just needed to be loaded a little hotter to break it in, but once it got going it fed very well. I think the first couple dozen rounds smoothed things out, kind of lapped it a bit. Bolt locked back on empty mag every time. I concur that it is indeed overgassed and I'll correct that with an adjustable gas block in a few weeks. Recoil impulse was sharper than I'm used to but not abusive--I think a different stock would improve that and once suppressed it will be very pleasant indeed. For something that's as light as my 5.56 guns but using the .308 I'm very pleased with it in that regard.

Another matter, however, came to my attention that has to do with me more than it. I very rarely shoot any centerfire rifle unsuppressed and I was quickly reminded of why: it's freaking annoying, and if your muffs get nudged up by the stock, it's painful! 18" .308 is a very useful configuration and I'm definitely keeping it for what it will do but the blast is just a taste I'll have to acquire for the moment until budget allows for a can mount and gas block.

The stock trigger SUCKS and when you're dealing with everything else too it really becomes a problem. Maybe I'm just too used to having really good ones, but this was heavy, gritty, and longer than any trigger I remember having. A simple ALG or BCM trigger I think will clean it up nicely for not a lot of money--I suppose I could be persuaded to later give it a G2S if it behaves itself well. Accuracy seemed good considering I was having so much trouble with the trigger. I noticed how badly it was throwing me off so in light of that I'm pleased with what I saw thus far. I'll give a number when I actually get one that truthfully reflects what it can do. I think PSA would do themselves a big favor to put a decent trigger like an ALG in their complete lowers--acknowledged of course that those typically seeking something in this price range will not be connoisseurs, but even someone without a lot of experience would get a lot out of having something easier to use well. An extra $35-50 would do wonders for making their product a lot better in a way that matters a lot.

Further to add, an oversized charging handle would also be very, very helpful too. The bigger rounds and bigger BCG have more surface area so more mechanical force is required to clear anything stuck. With the few hangups I had I REALLY wanted the bigger BCM handle I have on my 5.56 guns. It's so obvious I really question why standard small size charging handles are even made at all for 308.

All in all I'm impressed with having a functioning rifle for the price I paid for it. It is operable in stock configuration and once more ammo is run through it I expect function will smooth out considerably, which is a known phenomenon with many guns in general. I totally accept that it's not what a $2000-3500+ rifle would be like, and it's not fair to compare it to them either for that. This is just a simple utility minded rifle intended to simply put .308 bullets out there in a functional manner that can be further configured by anyone of the inclination to do so. It does exactly that. The industry is doing us a big favor putting out entry level .308's to build demand across a broader base which can better insure that they'll always be around versus a luxury good that can get wiped out very quickly when the wind changes.

With a couple of relatively inexpensive upgrades it will cost less than the next lowest priced option and will get me closer to where I want to go. I have a ALG ACT on order and will get a larger charging handle--so really ~$100 or $200 with the gas block is the cost of doing business here. Will run some more rounds through it just to get it broken in a little then get to work on the gas block and can mount. Later on I'll add a BAD lever as well because that's what I have on all of my 5.56 sized lowers.

[09stanggt]

If you have the, whatever they call it, M4 lower with the generic stock like I do, put a Kick Eez pad on it. Not so much for recoil per se but it keeps the butt from slipping around as much. I will at least put in an ear plug on my right as I know exactly what you mean about the earpro moving at the worst time.

My stock trigger wasn't as bad as yours from the sound of it. I'm a fan of the ALG ACT, does better than it should for the price. Maybe it's only in the 15 models that PSA offers an upgraded trigger? At their prices though, you're 400 ahead of the game before you start to add a thing.

I'm glad to hear it runs as it should. You definitely have plenty of gas to cycle it with a middy. No leaks then in the BCG from the sounds of it nor around their gas block. It will be good to hear a report on how well that barrel shoots.

[Grand58742]

If you do decide to buy a PSA (I, for one, never will again) then make sure to remove all accessories and return it to factory condition before sending it back for warranty work. Also, deny that you ever accessorized it in the first place if they accuse you of such. PSA might still void your warranty (really, what COULDN'T be construed as "modification", something that PSA's warranty forbids?) but you might be able to get your gun fixed if you don't help them come up with an excuse to screw you.

So, let me get this straight... You took a factory installed block or A frame off your rifle and still expected it to be covered under warranty from PSA?

If I was to drop a new after market motor in my Mustang, should I still expect Ford to cover the vehicle under factory warranty?

[yellowfin]

So, let me get this straight... You took a factory installed block or A frame off your rifle and still expected it to be covered under warranty from PSA?

If I was to drop a new after market motor in my Mustang, should I still expect Ford to cover the vehicle under factory warranty?

Maybe for issues with the paint or the electronics but not the drive train.

To address specifically the matter of burrs and other chamber or barrel extension defects, how many people here inspect yours periodically with one of those endoscopes that plugs into your laptop or phone? I was looking at some on Amazon and it looks really useful but wondered if it really is or if it's like a cheap RC helicopter that works on Dec 25th and dies on the 26th.