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Thread: Storage/Security for your NFA and other firearms

  1. #1
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    Storage/Security for your NFA and other firearms

    I didn't see how to post this in the "General" section, there was no "post new thread" link

    I am looking for a better lock up for my firearms. My brothers and father all have what seem to be good liberty safes, but I feel like given the right tools, such as a rotary grinder, and given enough time, almost any safe can be cracked. 20 minutes to cut the side off. That combined with the difficulty of moving a heavy safe...
    I do like safes, but I was curious what others felt about the gun safe vs gun cabinet from a company like Secure IT. My basement which is finished, is a poured concrete bathtub. I was thinking a good security door at the top of the steps is a good start.

    https://www.secureitgunstorage.com

    any thoughts?

    thanks,
    scott

  2. #2
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    While not recommending certain products, I would say the have layers of protection. outside in, landscaping, lighting, doors, windows, alarms, dogs, interior doors, cages, safes. Also exit and entry with items, dress and appearance. So if every sat morning neighbors see you in your 5.11 outfit with gun bags leaving and returning, word gets out, etc.
    Time helps if the burglar has skills and tools. If it's some punks, they will just beat up stuff and make a mess before leaving with nothing.
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

  3. #3
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    If you're serious about protecting expensive firearms, look into a used jewelry safe with a TL15 or even TL30 rating. If you want to go beast mode, get a TL30x6 or TRTL30x6.

    Gun safes are a joke. Two layers of thin sheet metal and hollow - might as well be a school locker. For example, the top of the line model from Liberty, the Presidential, has a UL RSC rating. Compare this to TL rated safes for how much you can insure the contents:

    https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/burg-ratings

    You can also see the difference in the classifications at http://www.amsecusa.com/burglary-ratings-explained/ by clicking on the tabs. UL RSC is 5 minutes entry time with 12 gauge steel, while TL15 is 15 minutes entry time and walls equivalent to 1" thick open hearth steel.

    Liberty wants over $4000 for their smallest Presidential. You can get a used TL15 or possibly a TL30 for less than this, delivered and installed.

    No safe is invulnerable, so weight is your friend. It prevents someone from carrying it off and then having all the time in the world to open it up. I have a small-ish TL15 that weighs 2500 lbs empty. A decent sized TL30x6 will push 4000+ lbs. The walls on safes like these are typically composite construction, so after cutting through the steel outer shell, the perp has to contend with a mixture of concrete and other materials that destroy cutting tools. The fire ratings are generally higher and longer, and the doors are extremely heavy (requiring you to level the safe or else the door keeps trying to open/close on you). Add a liberty SafElert for good measure, and tie the room into your home security system.

    Avoid electronic locks. If they break, the only option is to drill out the lock, which will be expensive and time consuming. Mechanical locks, while slower to use, have very little chance of breaking.

    I also agree with mark5pt56. Layers of security are better than one expensive safe that the world can see.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  4. #4
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    insurance... and im talking real insurance, specific for your firearms, not "oh my home owners covers that". It most likely does not. My basic home owners covered 1000 bucks worth of firearms.

    My rider even will pay my tax stamps to replace my NFA items.

  5. #5
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    Excellent advice from rjacobs. Get collectors insurance. Check out https://www.easterninsurance.com/ins...toric-firearms.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
    insurance... and im talking real insurance, specific for your firearms, not "oh my home owners covers that". It most likely does not. My basic home owners covered 1000 bucks worth of firearms.

    My rider even will pay my tax stamps to replace my NFA items.
    I have to agree. I have a gun safe, home alarm, and I feel best about my specific firearm collector insurance. It's about $300 per year for my needs and they even cover the items if I need to ship to a gunsmith, etc.

  7. #7
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    I just used my normal home owners insurance. I had to inventory everything, serial numbers, pictures, etc... and provide a replacement value. I was a bit leery of doing such and letting my insurance know what I had, but my agent(who has done a ton of firearms riders here in Texas and knew exactly what to do when I asked about a firearms rider) said "why would I insure your firearms, then let out information on what you have so that others can come steal them, just so I have to pay out the claim." I cant necessarily argue with that.

    I think I have ~40k rider with a $250 deductible for something like 30 bucks a month. Covers my safe too as well as my 2 Dillon 1050's and my other physical reloading gear, but not any components. My agent said its best not to divulge to the insurance company that I am storing highly flammable/explosive items in my home... I couldnt really argue with that.

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    20 minutes to cut it open is pretty optimistic on your part. I worked a burglary in a million dollar home where the whole front of a gunsafe was cut off with a sawzall (reciprocating saw). Through a basement window, cut across the top of the safe and down both sides, entire front falls off. Expensive big-bore hunting rifles? No thank you.... Just the pistols please. Out of the house in the homeowner's high-end Audi in about 5 minutes. Access to all sides and top of the safe was the key here. The safe was just sitting in a basement utility room, unhidden and unprotected.

  9. #9
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    Most gun safes are not safes. There are two brands that seem good. As said layers are your friend. I have one in a condo against a wall in a closet which would require alarming the neighbors and having to deal with tight space which makes it hard to get at quickly. And it's bolted down.

    Pretty much any gun safe not bolted to concrete can be opened within a couple minutes or less. With nothing more than 2 men and a pry bar.

  10. #10
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    Thanks, very good advice all.
    Yes I have USAA insurance, and every time I get a new firearm, I call USAA to add it. Once I had a few firearms I called them to insure them separately. Glass is on there too.

    My street has a few police and a local politician, plus it's a relatively safe town, but of course, bad things happen everywhere, but at least there is a constant police presence here.

    We have motion sensor exterior lighting, and are adding more to the perimeter. My buddies bf's dog is a little poodle mix that barks like a mofo but will be totally useless. He usually has a pit bull, which are the absolute sweetest dogs, but protective. Our attack cat is completely useless. His ex wife got the pit bull a couple years ago.

    My buddy wants to add a bilco door to the basement, which would require cutting a door thru concrete an digging out to install the door. If that can happen, then the came could be true about sinking a safe into a cutout and encasing it in a concrete shell. Probably a ridiculous idea, but I'll look into it.

    Those TL-15 and 30 safes look great, I'll look into them as well.

    thanks again

    scott

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