$1500 to spend on hunting/SPR

**Mainelymark** · 01-24-17, 13:42

Hello all. This is my first post. I've been lurking for the last 9 months. In that time I've learned a lot about the AR platform much in part to the knowledge held here in this forum. Bravo Zulu.
I've used firearms for over 30 years but have never had an AR. I never wanted one as I was under the wrongful impression that the 5.56 was insufficient for killing deer. Some would argue that it is, but I I've come to the informed opinion that it is sufficient when used within a certain range and the shot is well placed. I started searching for a caliber that would be mild on recoil for my children to target practice with and eventually hunt coyotes then deer. I have 5 and 8 year old girls as well as a boy who's 10. The 5 year old wants to shoot (hasn't yet) but the 8 & 10 love shooting air rifle and 22lr. My son has his great grand dad's bolt action 20ga that he shot his first turkey with last spring. Hoping that he'd be able to use it this fall for deer, I bought a few boxes of slugs. When I sighted the old gun in I realized that the recoil was quite stout (equal to my 12ga with 3" duck loads). Also, the 20ga has a poly choke on it that led to 6" groups at 20 yards

. So, as much as I wanted him to hunt, I decided to look for an alternative with less recoil and more accuracy. I've finally settled on a AR with a 18" 1:7 barrel to stabilize the heaviest bullets it can accurately shoot. I will also be using the rifle for medium to longer range target practice as well as coyote hunting.
I'm not interested in building my own. I'm not too concerned about weight as the kids will be firing from a rest. I don't want a "less expensive AR that works just as well". I've researched every offering with an 18" barrel out there and boiled it down to this price range. I'm a buy once cry once type of guy. I feel the price range I've chosen to be the best bang for the buck as far as a rifle that you could bet your life on. Even though that's not the intended purpose of this AR, it is a firearm and being so I want to have faith in it working if things get squirrelly. I've narrowed it down to just a few higher-end rifles. My max on a complete rifle is $1550 (not including optic). I've found these three......

$1400 Daniel Defense m4 v9 s2w 18"-
Mid length gas. CHF 18" barrel (not stainless) that is nitrided (not chrome lined)
Flash hider that I would change out for a muzzle brake
Standard DD trigger that I would be replacing with geissele SSA

$1505 Daniel Defense V7 PRO
Rifle length gas. CFM 18" barrel that is chrome lined
Muzzle brake
Geissele SD3G trigger that I would be replacing for an SSA (3G isn't a trigger for inexperienced shooters)

$1525 Barret rec7 DI
Mid length gas (I believe). 18" stainless match barrel (Krieger provides the blank) I believe it's chrome lined?)
Muzzle brake
ALG ACT trigger that I may keep for a while depending on performance.

Questions:
1 does the mid length gas on the V9's 18" make it more or less desirable? What if it's 10 degrees outside?
2 will the DD nitrided barrel be more accurate than the same profile with chrome lining? How much difference in MOA should I expect between the two?
3 which of the three "should" be most accurate?
4 which (if any) is built more ruggedly?
5 DD has a lifetime warranty against factory defects, Barrett only has 1 year. That kind of bothers me just for the simple fact that I would hope that a manufacturer would have the warranty match the faith they have in the product they produce. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way? Opinions?
6 finally, I'm sure the two are very evenly matched. I wish there was more out there on the rec7 DI cause I really like the looks of that rifle (and it's a Barrett). I know those feelings are irrelevant, but all things being equal precision and durability wise, I'd buy the Barrett.

I thank you for your answers and I'm looking forward to learning more from you all.

**jstalford** · 01-24-17, 14:32

I like DD, but have never owned one personally. No experience with Barrett, but they're not exactly a household name in ARs. Maybe some others can chime in with their experience.

If it were me, I'd get this upper:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Produ...SS410-KMR-A-15

and this lower, which you can get with SSA pre-installed. I also prefer the grip and stock on the BCMs.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...rtactical.com/

**GH41** · 01-24-17, 14:33

Add this to your list. http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=862-790 Of the 3 you listed I would choose the V7 PRO. The 3G trigger isn't dangerous but most don't consider it a prescission trigger. Neither is the SSA.

**mballz23** · 01-24-17, 14:38

Originally Posted by Mainelymark

Hello all. This is my first post. I've been lurking for the last 9 months. In that time I've learned a lot about the AR platform much in part to the knowledge held here in this forum. Bravo Zulu.
I've used firearms for over 30 years but have never had an AR. I never wanted one as I was under the wrongful impression that the 5.56 was insufficient for killing deer. Some would argue that it is, but I I've come to the informed opinion that it is sufficient when used within a certain range and the shot is well placed. I started searching for a caliber that would be mild on recoil for my children to target practice with and eventually hunt coyotes then deer. I have 5 and 8 year old girls as well as a boy who's 10. The 5 year old wants to shoot (hasn't yet) but the 8 & 10 love shooting air rifle and 22lr. My son has his great grand dad's bolt action 20ga that he shot his first turkey with last spring. Hoping that he'd be able to use it this fall for deer, I bought a few boxes of slugs. When I sighted the old gun in I realized that the recoil was quite stout (equal to my 12ga with 3" duck loads). Also, the 20ga has a poly choke on it that led to 6" groups at 20 yards

. So, as much as I wanted him to hunt, I decided to look for an alternative with less recoil and more accuracy. I've finally settled on a AR with a 18" 1:7 barrel to stabilize the heaviest bullets it can accurately shoot. I will also be using the rifle for medium to longer range target practice as well as coyote hunting.
I'm not interested in building my own. I'm not too concerned about weight as the kids will be firing from a rest. I don't want a "less expensive AR that works just as well". I've researched every offering with an 18" barrel out there and boiled it down to this price range. I'm a buy once cry once type of guy. I feel the price range I've chosen to be the best bang for the buck as far as a rifle that you could bet your life on. Even though that's not the intended purpose of this AR, it is a firearm and being so I want to have faith in it working if things get squirrelly. I've narrowed it down to just a few higher-end rifles. My max on a complete rifle is $1550 (not including optic). I've found these three......

$1400 Daniel Defense m4 v9 s2w 18"-
Mid length gas. CHF 18" barrel (not stainless) that is nitrided (not chrome lined)
Flash hider that I would change out for a muzzle brake
Standard DD trigger that I would be replacing with geissele SSA

$1505 Daniel Defense V7 PRO
Rifle length gas. CFM 18" barrel that is chrome lined
Muzzle brake
Geissele SD3G trigger that I would be replacing for an SSA (3G isn't a trigger for inexperienced shooters)

$1525 Barret rec7 DI
Mid length gas (I believe). 18" stainless match barrel (Krieger provides the blank) I believe it's chrome lined?)
Muzzle brake
ALG ACT trigger that I may keep for a while depending on performance.

Questions:
1 does the mid length gas on the V9's 18" make it more or less desirable? What if it's 10 degrees outside?
2 will the DD nitrided barrel be more accurate than the same profile with chrome lining? How much difference in MOA should I expect between the two?
3 which of the three "should" be most accurate?
4 which (if any) is built more ruggedly?
5 DD has a lifetime warranty against factory defects, Barrett only has 1 year. That kind of bothers me just for the simple fact that I would hope that a manufacturer would have the warranty match the faith they have in the product they produce. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way? Opinions?
6 finally, I'm sure the two are very evenly matched. I wish there was more out there on the rec7 DI cause I really like the looks of that rifle (and it's a Barrett). I know those feelings are irrelevant, but all things being equal precision and durability wise, I'd buy the Barrett.

I thank you for your answers and I'm looking forward to learning more from you all.

Personally. Barrett, I'd stay away from in the AR market. Great name just not really a known quantity in the AR world. DD is a great rifle. But so is BCM or Colt. BCM has an 18" gun as well. Might be something to look at.

In reference to my pic. That's a BCM 16", cold hammer forged. Chrome lined barrel. 1/7. 40 yards. 62gr Barnes TSX. She ran about 20 yards and crumpled. Her left lung was about obliterated. That gun slams a 4" steel plate at 350 with m193, 855, anything I feed it really.

Question. Why an 18" gun? Velocity is not drastically different. If you're shooting match ammo past 300. Sure. That velocity will come into play. The rifle length gas system will also seem softer.

Me personally, you're paying 200-400 more for 2" of barrel. That's not going to matter when you shoot a deer. Don't think I could morally shoot a deer at more than 150 with a .223. I slammed a pig at 200 last weekend, lung shot. She ran 500 yards and was still alive when I found her 20 minutes later. Now I know pigs are tougher, a lot tougher than deer but you get my point.

If you want 18, cool. Just some food for thought.

Some will argue that nitrided barrels are more accurate than CL. To me that's a moot point with advancements in today's tech and the uniformity of applying CL.

Just my.02

Edit: the blood up front is from her nose, not the shot

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**jstalford** · 01-24-17, 14:41

Yeah if we could talk you into 16" then that opens up a lot of options. You could the BCM hammer forged or colt combat unit or sionics, centurion etc.

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**sva01** · 01-24-17, 14:45

Just curious, why 18" instead of 16" barrel?

I see that others have brought up the length issue before I posted.

If you can live with 16", I'd go along these lines:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-S...kmr-a-15ib.htm

and then buy the lower of your choosing.

I'm running a Geissele SD-E in my hunting rifles and I would recommend it. My son used one last year at 9yrs old to kill his first deer. We practiced a bit so he got the hang of the trigger and he did a great job when it was time to close the deal...

**skp** · 01-24-17, 14:58

I have another question: have you considered the fact that those rifles come with no sights installed? You're going to have to budget for that too.

**kenny256** · 01-24-17, 15:30

Originally Posted by skp

I have another question: have you considered the fact that those rifles come with no sights installed? You're going to have to budget for that too.

I think that's the budget for the rifle plus scope...

My guess....

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**Mainelymark** · 01-24-17, 15:31

[QUOTE=sva01;2444756]Just curious, why 18" instead of 16" barrel?

Thanks for the help fellas. I was wanting the 18" over the 16" primarily for the profile/heavier barrel rather than length. Secondly for the bit more fps at longer range. I just figured that a longer heavier barrel should be a bit more accurate especially over 300 yds (target not for deer). All shots on deer would be under 100.

I am only interested in a complete rifle. I'm sure it's irrelevant, but I'm afraid of having slop, even minimal, between the upper and lower. More than anything it's because it would bother my OCD. And....I figure there's a reason folks glass bed their bolt guns, ....they want the most rigid platform possible.

I've looked into the BCM RECCE 18 KMR-A. I'ts a 1:8 instead of 1:7. Dunno if that matters on a heavy bullet or not. I've also read that the BCM barrels can be hit or miss. Lastly, I can't find one in stock anywhere online.

That's my budget for the rifle alone. Thanks