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Thread: Chrome Lined VS Not

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansTheHobbit View Post
    I'm a little dubious that there's any chrome lined barrel that consistently shoots 1 MOA, and I'm a lot dubious that it's a regular occurrence.
    Like Molon I have gotten sub MOA 10 shot groups out of a Colt SOCOM contour chrome lined barrel. I don't think this is a fluke.

    I posted the target somewhere in one of Molon's threads as an additional data point.

    Molon believes, correctly, that barrel contour plays a big role in barrel precision given that the bores are of good quality. Chrome lining has come a long way in consistency and quality of application to the point a good chrome lined barrel doesn't give up much in precision potential compared to other mass produced barrels. So if you use a beefy enough contour will good barrel harmonics and feed it good ammo chances are it will have plenty of precision potential.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vgex2 View Post
    GT Dist?
    Sorry missed the quote, but yes. GTD. I didn't want to call them out because they are a good shop with good people.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Reports of chrome plated barrels being inaccurate are greatly exaggerated.

    Buy a high-quality chrome plated barrel (Colt, FN, Noveske, Bravo, etc), you will probably get a barrel that is capable of holding 1 MOA or better with the right ammunition and other parts of the rifle.
    I would add Daniel Defense CHF to you list. Hopefully not the only one to suggest that. Lol


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    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may."
    ~ Sam Houston

    “The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”
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  4. #34
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    Hans, the breadth and depth of your expertise is astonishing. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope for the sake and safety of your customers, it does not involve attention to detail, data analysis, troubleshooting, communication skills, an open mind or knowing when you're out of your depth
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
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    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
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    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Hans, the breadth and depth of your expertise is astonishing. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope for the sake and safety of your customers, it does not involve attention to detail, data analysis, troubleshooting, communication skills, an open mind or knowing when you're out of your depth
    And here come the personal attacks...the hallmark of every mature adult.

    All I said was that I'm skeptical that chrome lined barrels are capable of 1 MOA. I looked at everything you posted, and I will admit that I'm slightly more optimistic now. I will also admit that, as has been pointed out, chrome lined barrels have probably come a ways in recent years. But, I think conventional wisdom still applies, that you're going to lose a little accuracy with chrome lined vs. not. That was the meat and potatoes of my post.

    What I find hilarious about this whole thing is that I just watched a video about the HK416 with Larry Vickers, and he and the HK guy were talking about how chrome lining reduces accuracy. And here I am on a site where Larry Vickers is the ultimate authority, being berated for expressing an opinion espoused by his youtube channel. It is a little ironic isn't it?

  6. #36
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    I apologize for making it personal. However, it gets really frustrating covering the same ground over and over again for someone who refuses to do their due diligence.

    Molon started a thread listing the subjects he wrote about for us. Find that thread, follow the links and spend time reading them. Start with his primer on Mean Radius.

    P2000, Extreme Spread still gives us important data. It gives us the diameter of the circle the entire group fits in. Mean Radius gives us the radius of the circle that the average of the group fits in
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-06-17 at 17:28.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I apologize for making it personal. However, it gets really frustrating covering the same ground over and over again for someone who refuses to do their due diligence.

    Molon started a thread listing the subjects he wrote about for us. Find that thread, follow the links and spend time reading them. Start with his primer on Mean Radius.

    P2000, Extreme Spread still gives us important data. It gives us the diameter of the circle the entire group fits in. Mean Radius gives us the radius of the circle that the average of the group fits in
    Dude, I get it. I just assumed that the measurements were in MOA without really looking at the title. My bad. Please don't make this into a whole ES vs MR thing.

    But you just took an off the cuff statement and ran with it as if I had stated it as fact, while completely ignoring the main point I was trying to make, which is that nitride might have some advantages over chrome in the accuracy department. And just for the record, I'm not saying that's a fact or even that I believe it, but my mind is open to the possibility based on what I've seen.

    It just seems to me that you've pretty much declared war on all conventional wisdom. That actually seems to be a trend on all the forums at the moment. Granted there have been some advancements in manufacturing lately, but I really don't think that much has changed. If chrome lining really truly had no appreciable impact on accuracy, then competitive shooters would be using chrome lined barrels. I know a guy who blows through 10k rounds a year in actual competition and does R&D testing for barrel manufacturers on top of that (and he fully admits that CMV barrels can now be made to a high degree of precision almost on par with stainless) but he wouldn't even consider using a chrome lined barrel. Believe me, if you could deliver a barrel with high precision and long life, competition shooters would be flocking to them.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansTheHobbit View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Some of the stuff I've read suggests that nitride may give a longer service life, and it doesn't degrade accuracy. It also has extremely good corrosion resistance. My only reservation about it is that I don't know how it affects the reliability of extraction from high pressure chambers. Chrome lined chambers have a certain lubricity to them, and I don't think nitride has nearly the same lubricity as hard chrome, so that may be an issue. Obviously it's good to go in low pressure chambers like Glock pistols, but I've not heard anything about how it performs with rifle chambers. I've actually wondered if it would be possible to take a nitrided barrel and have just the chamber chrome lined to get the best of both worlds. I just don't know if the chrome would stick to the nitrided surface of the chamber, but I have no reason to believe it wouldn't.
    I am a sample of one, so take with a grain of salt. I had a nitrided BA 5.45x39 AR barrel and had FTE's during a carbine course. Very embarrassing and took a rod to knock them out. Yes, it was steel-cased Wolf (don't know of any brass-cased 5.45 though). Yes, they occurred when I left a round chambered after firing a string and the chamber cooled with the round in it. No doubt the laquer used on the ammo played a part. Just left me with a bad taste in my mouth about nitride.

    Having said all that, it is becoming much more common for manufacturers to use nitride treatments for their barrels. Like I said in my post above, I will most certainly take it over an unlined/untreated barrel. It's just that I prefer chrome lining when available. Quite frankly, I believe that as time progresses nitride will overtake chrome in availability. It's cheaper and almost (in my book) as good as chrome lining.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansTheHobbit View Post
    And here come the personal attacks...the hallmark of every mature adult.

    All I said was that I'm skeptical that chrome lined barrels are capable of 1 MOA. I looked at everything you posted, and I will admit that I'm slightly more optimistic now. I will also admit that, as has been pointed out, chrome lined barrels have probably come a ways in recent years. But, I think conventional wisdom still applies, that you're going to lose a little accuracy with chrome lined vs. not. That was the meat and potatoes of my post.

    What I find hilarious about this whole thing is that I just watched a video about the HK416 with Larry Vickers, and he and the HK guy were talking about how chrome lining reduces accuracy. And here I am on a site where Larry Vickers is the ultimate authority, being berated for expressing an opinion espoused by his youtube channel. It is a little ironic isn't it?
    Sure chrome lining will reduce potential precision, no argument. The degree to which you sacrifice precision from having chrome lining is very very minimal these days. To the point where most shooters lack the skill even from a bench rest to wring out the extra precision potential of two quality barrels one chrome lined and one not. Once you factor in the use of non match ammunition the differences are virtually meaningless. Sure if your goal is to win at Camp Perry then run a non chrome lined, cut rifled, hand lapped, SS match barrel with match ammo. If your goal is a good general purpose carbine that will be durable and give good service, you can do a lot worse than a good chrome lined barrel where you give up a small bit of precision for improved wear characteristics, corrosion resistance, extraction characteristics, and easier cleaning. Salt bath nitriding may be the sweet spot in the middle between the two. I have both chrome lined and salt bath nitrided, but frankly can't afford to try to shoot either of them out because it would be an absurd amount of ammo to burn up, and would take me forever since I don't run full auto or do mindless bumpfire mag dumps.

  10. #40
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    Sr-25 acc's have chrome lined cut rifled barrels. These should be about as good as it gets for chrome lined barrels. Maybe F2S can chime in with accurate data on its capability.

    Search function is awesome.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...-with-M80-ball
    Everyone should read Jack's sticky on accuracy to get an idea of what he defines as a MOA rifle also.
    Last edited by Jsp10477; 02-06-17 at 20:20. Reason: A little search-fu yielded results
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