On loose carrier key screws

[Stickman]

My point being is that people very rarely understand the true cost of quality.

I think you just summed up the entire intent and perspective of this board. Bravo sir, very well done!!!

[Dutch110]

I think you just summed up the entire intent and perspective of this board. Bravo sir, very well done!!!

It's rare that thought leaders in a particular field stick around on a forum like this for so long imparting their wisdom. Eventually it seems they get run out by the uneducated masses who just shout them down quoting internet lore and stuff they heard a buddy say who knew a guy who was deployed to Panama once. Glad to see this place didn't fall to that phenomena.

[Stickman]

Dutch 110, you said:
I've had the discussion with one manufacturer (don't remember who and would not name them if I did) about those cents and the guy I spoke to was very adamant that, "Well, $.17 per gun, that's $17.00 every hundred guns! In ten thousand guns, that's $1700!! Why would I do that?"

Its sad, but you can't talk quality with guys who are only interested in the bottom line. I remember talking to John Noveske one night on his deck. He commented to me that when he started out building his barrel, he did it with zero costs in mind. He said he didn't care at all about what it took or what the cost was. He added that the barrel was built to be the best to eliminate any doubt for the man going into harms way with his product. We had a lot of great talks, he was really a mans man, and a great all around guy. I miss our talks and the time we spent together, and I know that Todd K here does as well.

[lysander]

I think Torx is a great idea...... I have not delved into it deeply but it sure seems to offer advantages. Couple reasons I have not offered them that way. One, trying to keep up with everything else. Two, standardization, where some people are gonna say "those dang star-drive things again! I don't have the bit for it!" Also, what customers ask for..... there just has not been a lot of request for it. There has been some-- I've done a few batches with Torx sockets, fewer than 5,000 I think, for Umbrella Corp. Not sure but I presume they offer them in their BCG's and maybe as individual parts.

Torx are great for applications where the screws need to be, or are desired to be, removed and reused.

The carrier screw should be singe use, as you are essentially making them TTY, so there is really no benefit over regular hexagon socket screws.

[556Cliff]

Torx are great for applications where the screws need to be, or are desired to be, removed and reused.

The carrier screw should be singe use, as you are essentially making them TTY, so there is really no benefit over regular hexagon socket screws.

I'm not so sure about that... One of the last gas keys I removed that I had previously installed with the MOAKS plain (using regular Colt hex screws) was so tight that I thought the drive slots were going to round out before the screws came loose. Luckily I they came loose, but if I used Loctite on my gas key installations I think I would have been in some trouble trying to get those screws out. I believe Torx would be beneficial on removal to prevent the drive slot from rounding out, especially if you consider an installation that was done using Loctite, Ned's OCKS knurling, proper torque and staking.

[lysander]

I'm not so sure about that... One of the last gas keys I removed that I had previously installed with the MOAKS plain (using regular Colt hex screws) was so tight that I thought the drive slots were going to round out before the screws came loose. Luckily I they came loose, but if I used Loctite on my gas key installations I think I would have been in some trouble trying to get those screws out. I believe Torx would be beneficial on removal to prevent the drive slot from rounding out, especially if you consider an installation that was done using Loctite, Ned's OCKS knurling, proper torque and staking.

If you are staking the screws, there is no reason to use Loctite.

If you use Ned's deep notched heads, the staking is going to be stronger than the adhesive.

[Ned Christiansen]

I'm in agreement 3 of 3, lysander, the first being that 6-point is of less benefit on a single-use screw.

[prepare]

I'm in agreement 3 of 3, lysander, the first being that 6-point is of less benefit on a single-use screw.

Could you post a picture of the new screw?

[Ned Christiansen]

New ones in front with the 1/8" wrench. Old one in background with 9/64" wrench.


The first to ID the country of origin of the 8 rounds of SS10-9 in the background will get a free ticket to this raffle:
https://huntingwithheroes.org/raffles/

There is a way.

[prepare]

New ones in front with the 1/8" wrench. Old one in background with 9/64" wrench.

Excellet!