277 Wolverine General Thoughts and Experiences?

[Tokarev]

I keep coming back to the thought that the 6x45 looks pretty good. It will push heavier bullets than the 5.56 at decent velocities and basically requires a simple neck-up operation to form cases. I know it doesn't have a cool name, but still...

I just cannot get behind the idea of any rounds between the 6x45 and 300 BO when we have larger capacity cases that work in an AR (6.8 SPC or 6.5 G).

Admittedly, 40 years of being intested in guns leaves a person a little jaded when it comes to the next new hotness round.

Andy

It is all trade offs.

Advantage of cartridges like the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel is more case capacity but with the down side of lower magazine capacity and/or proprietary mags.

The 25-45 Sharps is a 223 necked up to 257 and probably works well in the AR. The drawback to the Sharps is bullet selection. Nothing heavier than 85ish grains can likely be loaded to 2.26" for magazine.

6x45 is in the same boat. Bullets of 75 grains or so is as heavy as can be loaded before overall length becomes an issue. No real advantage over the 223 with a 75-77 bullet at that point. Any slight advantage in BC is probably mostly academic given the 2.26" length restriction.

And this is the drawback to the AR as a whole. Regardless of case the cartridge is still stuck at 2.26" or thereabouts.

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[AndyLate]

It is all trade offs.

Advantage of cartridges like the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel is more case capacity but with the down side of lower magazine capacity and/or proprietary mags.

The 25-45 Sharps is a 223 necked up to 257 and probably works well in the AR. The drawback to the Sharps is bullet selection. Nothing heavier than 85ish grains can likely be loaded to 2.26" for magazine.

6x45 is in the same boat. Bullets of 75 grains or so is as heavy as can be loaded before overall length becomes an issue. No real advantage over the 223 with a 75-77 bullet at that point. Any slight advantage in BC is probably mostly academic given the 2.26" length restriction.

And this is the drawback to the AR as a whole. Regardless of case the cartridge is still stuck at 2.26" or thereabouts.

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Excellent post. The wide selection of heavier bullets in the .223/5.56 really put the nails in the 6x45 coffin. When a standard .223 bullet weighed 50 or 55 grains, the 6x45 made more sense.

I hope the 6.8 hangs in there, because I want one for no really good reason.

Andy

[mig1nc]

I was recently reading an article about 6mm MAX, which is interesting in that it uses 350 Legend as the parent brass, keeping the 556 bolt dimensions while gaining powder capacity.

Has there been any thought of an evolved Wolverine using the same 277 projectiles but necking down 350 Legend brass like the 6mm MAX?

[Tokarev]

I was recently reading an article about 6mm MAX, which is interesting in that it uses 350 Legend as the parent brass, keeping the 556 bolt dimensions while gaining powder capacity.

Has there been any thought of an evolved Wolverine using the same 277 projectiles but necking down 350 Legend brass like the 6mm MAX?

Mad Dog Weapons has a cartridge offering called the 27 GPC. I think GPC is General Purpose Cartridge.

Anyway, it is based off the 6.8 SPC and is essentially an Ackley Improved. Mad Dog gave the cartridge a sharper shoulder and less case taper to increase powder capacity. I've never messed with this cartridge so don't know how it actually performs and therefore can't comment on performance over standard 6.8 SPC.

I'd guess an easy way to do something .277 based would be to take existing 24 Nosler cases and size them up to take a 27 bullet. Just looking at load data, the 24 Nosler will push a 105/107 grain bullet to 2,600 FPS from a 24" barrel. The standard 6.8 SPC will push a 110 grain to a little over 2,500 FPS from a 20" barrel. So not any real performance increase but there is the benefit of using the existing .378" AR bolt. I assume the same 27 GPC case dimensions could be used but with the 24 Nosler rebated rim.



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[Sid Post]

This cartridge was designed for easy reuse of 5.56 brass and other components.

If you want more than it can give, you lose a lot of that benefit. Personally, if I were going to wildcat beyond a simple 5.56 alternative, 6.8SPC and 6.5Grendel brass are easy places to start with lots of load data available.

I considered a 30HRT but in the end, opted for a 300H'AMR being an easier 5.56-oriented option. I also looked hard at a 7mm Raptor though, I really wanted to see the 257 Raptor become a reality but, rifle builder had some COVID deaths in the family so, that one never materialized. I still might do a 7 Raptor one day though.

[Tokarev]

This cartridge was designed for easy reuse of 5.56 brass and other components.

If you want more than it can give, you lose a lot of that benefit. Personally, if I were going to wildcat beyond a simple 5.56 alternative, 6.8SPC and 6.5Grendel brass are easy places to start with lots of load data available.

I considered a 30HRT but in the end, opted for a 300H'AMR being an easier 5.56-oriented option. I also looked hard at a 7mm Raptor though, I really wanted to see the 257 Raptor become a reality but, rifle builder had some COVID deaths in the family so, that one never materialized. I still might do a 7 Raptor one day though.

It will be interesting to see what wildcats may come from the 350 Legend. SOLGW is almost ready with the 6mm Max. This is essentially the 350 necked down to .243. From here it would seem only a matter of time before we have 6.5 and 6.8 variants as well as .22 and maybe even .20 or .17 wildcats as well. Cases will probably be necked up to .30 and .338 also.

As far as existing wildcats, MDWS has a variety of stuff done off the 6.8 case. Also the 6.5x47 Lapua.

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[Sid Post]

It will be interesting to see what wildcats may come from the 350 Legend. SOLGW is almost ready with the 6mm Max. This is essentially the 350 necked down to .243. From here it would seem only a matter of time before we have 6.5 and 6.8 variants as well as .22 and maybe even .20 or .17 wildcats as well. Cases will probably be necked up to .30 and .338 also.

As far as existing wildcats, MDWS has a variety of stuff done off the 6.8 case. Also the 6.5x47 Lapua.

With all the existing 6mm/.243 options, I don't see much need for other 6mm wildcats for an AR-15 personally.

The 257 Raptor has me excited as filling a gap in an offering as the 25-45 Sharps and 257 Ocelot seem to leave plenty of room for hunting-oriented round improvements.

With the 6.5 and .277/6.8 options in production today, not a lot of room for meaningful improvements limited to the AR-15 platform IMHO. With the 300 H'AMR and 300BO, .30 seems well covered for most people. The 7 Raptor is about as exotic as I would go for a round in this range that isn't a factory option in the sub-.30 caliber options.

Larger offerings seem to be mostly specialty rounds with limited appeal like the 458Socom and 350Legend for crazy hunting regulations though, I have considering a 358 or 375 Socom for closer range hard thumping of feral hogs.

[Tokarev]

With all the existing 6mm/.243 options, I don't see much need for other 6mm wildcats for an AR-15 personally.

The 257 Raptor has me excited as filling a gap in an offering as the 25-45 Sharps and 257 Ocelot seem to leave plenty of room for hunting-oriented round improvements.

With the 6.5 and .277/6.8 options in production today, not a lot of room for meaningful improvements limited to the AR-15 platform IMHO. With the 300 H'AMR and 300BO, .30 seems well covered for most people. The 7 Raptor is about as exotic as I would go for a round in this range that isn't a factory option in the sub-.30 caliber options.

Larger offerings seem to be mostly specialty rounds with limited appeal like the 458Socom and 350Legend for crazy hunting regulations though, I have considering a 358 or 375 Socom for closer range hard thumping of feral hogs.

I'd say the only benefit to the Legend case is the cartridge rim and the ability to use a standard bolt. It saves a little money on conversion and should be stronger. Also easier to find spare extractor parts, etc. Otherwise there just is only so much that can be done while staying inside the traditional receiver sets.

MDWS was talking about making some sort of "in between" upper and lower at one point. I think he was going to use the LWRC 6.8 dimensions. We probably already discussed it in this thread. But that's all moot now with some of the work done by Hornady with the ARC and now SOLGW with the Max. Also by Ruger and POF with the small frame 308s.

I still like the Wolverine. It is a fun cartridge to shoot and an easy cartridge to load. I also don't know if I'd bother with it again with that else might be out there.

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[mig1nc]

Six8 mags can take about a 2.3” COAL, right?

Might be interesting to see what you could do with that and say a 7mm/.284 projectile.


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[badkarmaiii]

The small frame, larger cartridges are the way to go for maximum performance, but the 277 WLV is just a jewel of a cartridge for the AR 15.
It's very well balanced and capable.