Savage MSR 10

[turnburglar]

Yea I shoot all the targets I post at 100. Here is two more that I shot this morning.

This is 175 gold medal. In the group I noted one sketchy trigger pull that explains one of the flyers. Im not sure about the other one. This target is a perfect example though of why 3 shot groups are terrible. The three in the middle would be a half moa group, yet when you continue to shoot everything opens up.



This is the magtech 168 BTHP and it shot WAAYYY better than the 168 winchester I shot last time. It is actually my new favorite load as I can get it at 0.62 a round frmo SGammo. I also like that it has a very similar zero to 175 gold medal. This was one of the better groups it shot today.



I adjusted the gas block down one click and got a double feed while shooting the 168 magtech. So I adjusted teh gas back up 2 clicks and shot another 30 rounds of mixed ammo for groups and didnt have another problem. This is actually my first time with a gun that has adjustable gas, so I will have to play with it in the future. What does the forum say about a gun that ejects to the 1:30 and puts alot of brass off the shell deflector? Also had one double feed? Too much or too little gas?

[RVTMaverick]

Hey turnbuglar,
Nice shooting for just getting to know your AR.

Your Double feed, I am not sure the gas block has anything to do with it,..? Also, the adjustment You made to Your Gas Block.. ejection at 1:30 IMHO is too Much Gas.

This IS How I have adjusted My Gas Blocks: Close the adjustment completely, then I install 1 round in my mag., at a time, Repeat 1 round at a time until it operates the BCG correctly, okay.
Now fire, Ofcourse the bolt doesn't cycle, reinstall 1 round in the mag., I then Open Up the Gas Block screw a 1/2 a turn at a time, until the Bolt cycles and Locks Open the BCG! When it does Lock Open, Do it again, to check the last adjustment You made does in fact Lock OPEN the BCG. From this point, I open it up 1/8 to 1/4 turn more, I am now/(You'll be set) with the the adjustment of your Gas Block for the Ammo you're going to use!
Ejection pattern is/for Mine @ 4:00 to 4:30ish, and recoil is SO Smooth, it's Awesome, FYI&FWIW: I installed the adjustable GasBlock because My Carbine was WAY OVER Gassed!
OH Yeah, this is for my AR15s, but the principal should be the same.

I Hope this Helps,
Peace Mav

Yea I shoot all the targets I post at 100. Here is two more that I shot this morning.

This is 175 gold medal. In the group I noted one sketchy trigger pull that explains one of the flyers. Im not sure about the other one. This target is a perfect example though of why 3 shot groups are terrible. The three in the middle would be a half moa group, yet when you continue to shoot everything opens up.



This is the magtech 168 BTHP and it shot WAAYYY better than the 168 winchester I shot last time. It is actually my new favorite load as I can get it at 0.62 a round frmo SGammo. I also like that it has a very similar zero to 175 gold medal. This was one of the better groups it shot today.



I adjusted the gas block down one click and got a double feed while shooting the 168 magtech. So I adjusted teh gas back up 2 clicks and shot another 30 rounds of mixed ammo for groups and didnt have another problem. This is actually my first time with a gun that has adjustable gas, so I will have to play with it in the future. What does the forum say about a gun that ejects to the 1:30 and puts alot of brass off the shell deflector? Also had one double feed? Too much or too little gas?

[maximus83]

Turnbuglar, thanks for posting the groups and updates--this and the few reviews I've been able to find, you've almost got me convinced to try the .308. Though I will wait until they come out with the updates this fall that I mentioned earlier--updated Schmid Tool trigger and Magpul furniture. I thought about the 6.5 version but the thing is, I already have two longer barreled rifles in 6.5, so it'd be fun to have one of these in .308 for close range blasting. You're already getting pretty decent accuracy, so that fits the pattern you'd expect from a Savage. What I'm interested to find out now is if you're able to get the gas debugged, and get it feeding and ejecting 100% reliability with common factory .308 loads.

[turnburglar]

Yea, I didnt like the 2 stage trigger the gun came with so I quickly put a Larue I had on tap. The stock trigger just wasnt as clean and consistent as a Geisselle or Larue. The first stage has some stacking, and the 2nd stage isnt a crisp break, its more like a glock with - disconnector. Im not upset though because it was still a decent trigger for a sub $1400 gun. I repurposed the trigger into my AR pistol that had a *enhanced* GI trigger and its serving much better there since that gun has no precision requirments. I also thought it was funny that my Larue heavy trigger spring fit right on.

Also I bought the 308 because of better ammo availability and percieved better terminal ballistics, but I already kinda wish I got a 6.5 because of the better precision and lighter recoil the round is known for. My wife doesnt like shooting this AR as much as I thought she would so the 6.5 would help a little in that reguard.

Im actually surprised the gun has been 100% reliable untill round 160. Its sitting at 185 right now. Upon further inspection I realize the gun was incredibly over gassed after reviewing slo mo photoage, checking the brass deflector, and now there is slight wear on the bolt lugs. Im gonna contact savage today and see how their CS responds. As long as they say the bolt lugs are GTG I'll just keep shooting the gun. Thanks RTV for posting your tuning technique. Normally I would be more thorough with a new platform, but I have felt rushed at the range due to heat and have been in the midle of a move and renovation so this is a side priority.

Bolt lug wear -

[maximus83]

How many total clicks do you have available to adjust the gas?

[turnburglar]

I dont really know, probably near a dozen? It doesnt have 3-5 settings like some guns. It's more like a FAL where one click turns the gas down a little bit.

[RVTMaverick]

You are welcome turnburglar,

Great pictures of your bolt, I am really surprised to see the wear on acouple of those lugs for so few rounds!...?

It will be interesting to hear how things go for you with their CS., please keep us posted eh..

Peace

Yea, I didnt like the 2 stage trigger the gun came with so I quickly put a Larue I had on tap. The stock trigger just wasnt as clean and consistent as a Geisselle or Larue. The first stage has some stacking, and the 2nd stage isnt a crisp break, its more like a glock with - disconnector. Im not upset though because it was still a decent trigger for a sub $1400 gun. I repurposed the trigger into my AR pistol that had a *enhanced* GI trigger and its serving much better there since that gun has no precision requirments. I also thought it was funny that my Larue heavy trigger spring fit right on.

Also I bought the 308 because of better ammo availability and percieved better terminal ballistics, but I already kinda wish I got a 6.5 because of the better precision and lighter recoil the round is known for. My wife doesnt like shooting this AR as much as I thought she would so the 6.5 would help a little in that reguard.

Im actually surprised the gun has been 100% reliable untill round 160. Its sitting at 185 right now. Upon further inspection I realize the gun was incredibly over gassed after reviewing slo mo photoage, checking the brass deflector, and now there is slight wear on the bolt lugs. Im gonna contact savage today and see how their CS responds. As long as they say the bolt lugs are GTG I'll just keep shooting the gun. Thanks RTV for posting your tuning technique. Normally I would be more thorough with a new platform, but I have felt rushed at the range due to heat and have been in the midle of a move and renovation so this is a side priority.

Bolt lug wear -

[maximus83]

Also I bought the 308 because of better ammo availability and percieved better terminal ballistics, but I already kinda wish I got a 6.5 because of the better precision and lighter recoil the round is known for. My wife doesnt like shooting this AR as much as I thought she would so the 6.5 would help a little in that reguard.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on your original thinking about the .308. For a carbine that can potentially be carried and used for hunting, there *is* a lot better diverse array of bullet sizes and options and factory loaded ammo for .308 vs 6.5. Also, it seems like given that 6.5 CM operates at higher pressures than .308, you hear about a lot more pressure-related problems as people try to debug 6.5 CM gas guns.

If the main issue is fixing the recoil for Mrs. Turnburglar, I'd check out a recoil-reduced load by Remington or the Hornady 125gr Lite stuff, or find a better muzzle brake than the factory one. A good brake should be able to cut the recoil in the range of 40-50%. Yeah they're loud, but let's face it, if you're shooting a 16-18" barreled carbine in .308, you're already in muffs + plugs territory anyway.

[turnburglar]

So it took Savage about two days to get back to my inquiry. They basically just said: "bolts wear and if stoppages persist they will fix it under warranty". The only part I am unhappy with the experience is that I dont really like sending a gun in.... for anything. I am fairly competent with the AR platform and anything I cant do myself, a local smith could handle same day. I just hate sending guns away. Its a me thing. I will try and get more range time in the next week or two and see if the double feeding continues after I try turning the gas down. The part that is confusing me is that I have never seen a bolt wear in this fashion. Could it really just be over gassed, or is there some tolerance stacking with the reciever extension that is preventing unlocking?


For the muzzle device; I dont think any other brake would be worth buying over the one that comes on the rifle. The stock brake is a 2 chamber design similar to the surefire comp. I do want to cut down on the blast though and am saving pennies to get a precision aramament EFAB. It's supposed to offer 40% recoil reduction with A2 flash hidind and concusion. In multiple tests I have seen it is the highest performing 'dual purpose' device.

[maximus83]

The only part I am unhappy with the experience is that I dont really like sending a gun in.... for anything. I am fairly competent with the AR platform and anything I cant do myself, a local smith could handle same day. I just hate sending guns away. Its a me thing.

No I don't think that's unreasonable to want to be able to just get a replacement part and fix yourself--I'm the same way, and after all, this is one reason we all like AR's. You can do most of the gunsmithing yourself. What you experienced here confirmed what Savage CS told me (and springfield, and colt) when I called each of them with pre-sales questions like: What would you do if my bolt breaks or wears out, or my barrel is shot out? Answer in every case: the rifle goes back to them. It's all about liability. They are not going to sell or send you spare parts involving BCG's and barrels, as they see this as a potential liability thing. But that right there is why I probably won't buy one of these otherwise super interesting small frames.

On recoil, your idea on the EFAB sounds interesting, went out and checked a few reviews. Maybe I need to try one of those on my bolt gun too. I'd gladly sacrifice a little recoil reduction to get a little less blast coming back to the shooter and out to the sides.