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Thread: Why doesn't anyone offer a 357Sig AR pistol?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Are we not talking PDW distances here per the OP? I guess it all depends on the intended role/use of the gun. Only advantages I'm aware of with the .357 Sig over 9mm is it's better on intermediate barriers if memory serves.



    Shear velocity, at least in typical handgun rnds, does not appear to dictate terminal ballistics. Per comments above, guess it depends on what one plans to do with it. Flatter shooting would have it's benefits too, but I was strictly talking about PDW/SD/HD uses.
    Let's say within 100 yards at the most.

    The extra 200-300fps that the 357Sig gets out of a longer barrel as compared to the 9mm would in fact make a significant difference. (Ballistics By the Inch had 9mm topping out in the 1400's while 357Sig hit the 1700's out of the same length, non-handgun barrels)
    Last edited by ABNAK; 07-12-17 at 14:36.
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    Remember that the various defensive bullets have an optimal velocity range; too slow, and it won't expand properly, but too fast, and it'll expand too rapidly (and possibly shear off any petals), and thus not achieve proper penetration. Not a big issue with FMJs and the like, but stuff like the Underwood rounds with Gold Dot bullets generally do not outperform their factory loaded versions.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Let's say within 100 yards at the most.

    The extra 200-300fps that the 357Sig gets out of a longer barrel as compared to the 9mm would in fact make a significant difference. (Ballistics By the Inch had 9mm topping out in the 1400's while 357Sig hit the 1700's out of the same length, non-handgun barrels)
    Understood, but make sure to note as Defaultmp3 mentions that modern JHP are designed to perform best in a velocity range and pushing them above that range, actually a negative to their terminal performance. If you recall, we discussed that in the 9mm vs 9mm +p thread.

    Using FMJ as a plinker or other uses, a non issue. For actual SD/HD, using JHP, could be an issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Remember that the various defensive bullets have an optimal velocity range; too slow, and it won't expand properly, but too fast, and it'll expand too rapidly (and possibly shear off any petals), and thus not achieve proper penetration. Not a big issue with FMJs and the like, but stuff like the Underwood rounds with Gold Dot bullets generally do not outperform their factory loaded versions.
    True, but let's look at the reasoning for it outside of normal handgun distances: let's use a Speer 124gr Gold Dot, .355 diameter bullet. At 1200fps (9mm +P velocity) it would still be going ~ 986fps at 100 yards. That same bullet kicked up to 1475fps (Underwood 357Sig velocity) would still be hitting ~ 1122fps at 100 yards. That is a 136fps difference at 100 yards and would make one still function as designed while the other would likely just punch a .355 sized hole in you.

    Bottom line? If I wanted it for "handgun" distances I'm cool with a 9mm. In fact, it's my home defense round as well as for CCW (although in HST flavor, not Gold Dot). For reaching out a little further like a PDW should be able to do the 357Sig offers me basically 9mm muzzle velocity effectiveness at 100 yards. Essentially like capping a bad guy at point blank range with a standard pressure 9mm HP, but at 100 yards.

    EDIT: accidently ran the original numbers for a handgun with 4" barrel. Out of a carbine, assuming the 9mm ran 1450 and the 357Sig ran 1750 there would actually be almost a 200fps difference at 100 yards, not 136fps. So it just magnifies my point.
    Last edited by ABNAK; 07-12-17 at 15:14.
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    Well, it probably also gives the 9mm enough velocity to still function properly at 100...

    I'm not opposed to the idea, just don't get hung up on needing it when it's probably more just a want.

    Glock mag AR lower won't work for what I've wanted to build. Let me know if you find options for a proper stick mag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Well, it probably also gives the 9mm enough velocity to still function properly at 100...

    I'm not opposed to the idea, just don't get hung up on needing it when it's probably more just a want.

    Glock mag AR lower won't work for what I've wanted to build. Let me know if you find options for a proper stick mag.
    THIS IS THE ISSUE with most AR platform pistol calibers. I have a direct impingement 10 mm A.R.. It shoots phenomenally. But the feeding issues are there because the platform is designed for a much longer OAL than any pistol cartridge I am aware of.


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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Well, it probably also gives the 9mm enough velocity to still function properly at 100...

    I'm not opposed to the idea, just don't get hung up on needing it when it's probably more just a want.

    Glock mag AR lower won't work for what I've wanted to build. Let me know if you find options for a proper stick mag.
    Oh that is without a doubt. For serious business 5.56mm is what I'd trust. Nonetheless, it would be kinda cool.......
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    Viability of 357SIG/Auto in general notwithstanding, it would quirky from a strictly functional perspective. Despite being a bottlenecked cartridge, it is short, chubby, with a history of bullet setback issues. A custom house could chase its tail, but it's not a contender for any quantity production.
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    Quarter Circle 10 makes them for the small frame Glock lower. Is your primary pistol a .357 SIG Glock? If you just want it because and have the money I say go for it. But I decided years ago to consolidate my calibers. After I got leukemia I took a hard look at what I had and sold a bunch of stuff. I wish I had a few of them back but don't miss most. It was important to me at the time. It might not be for others. Looks like Quarter Circle 10 & Ranier have the lowers and bolts in stock but no bbls.

    These folks list them: https://www.strongsidetactical.com/q...rrels-357-sig/

    https://www.quartercircle10.com/
    https://www.quartercircle10.com/prod...s/357-sig.html
    https://www.rainierarms.com/quarter-...bolt-assembly/
    https://www.rainierarms.com/quarter-...-page-product2
    Last edited by usmcvet; 07-28-17 at 10:46.
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  10. #20
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    Lone Wolf is advertising their G9 AR carbine length uppers in .357 sig although they don't actually show them for sale yet.

    Outside of 9mm caliber choices in ARs are few, and pricey. Although since PSA rolled out their .45acp AR I've seen both the carbine & pistol on sale for under $700, and it'll probably get a lot cheaper than that.

    I picked up a TNW ASR 16" carbine in 10mm earlier this year, so far it's been great, no issues. Compared to my JRC .45 I sold the TNW is quite a bit lighter and more compact.

    From TNW's site it looks like the 10mm bolt & extractor are identical for .40 & .357 sig so I could buy their .357 sig barrel for $125 and shoot that as well from my 10mm mags. Since the barrel just screws on by hand it's a simple swap.

    The ASR lower comes in two sizes, small frame mags for 9/40/.357 and large frame mags for .45 & 10mm. From what I've read .357 runs fine in the Glock 10mm mags.

    if you wanted to run the G31/32/33 mags you'd have to pick up the small frame lower as well for $150

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