Anyone familiar with laser spine surgery?

[rhino]

My lower back is farked. Four bulging discs, from L5-S1 on up. The older I get the more frequently it bothers me. It's certainly a hindrance because I have a PT program (cardio 5x per week, weights 4x per week) that I'm pretty religious about. Getting to the point that just about every morning lately it's stiff as hell when I get out of bed but gradually loosens up as the day wears on. I'll be 52 soon but at times I feel like those old bent-over guys! Do NOT want my life to devolve to that.

I've seen adds on TV for laser spine surgery. Supposedly just a Band-Aid and quick recovery. Anyone (especially you physicians out there) familiar with it? Anyone actually have it done? Did it help? I know back surgeries don't exactly have a stellar track record of success but was wondering if this type of surgery yielded better results.

Sorry you're having troubles!

Someone else addressed "laser surgery," so I'll just add a few things:

• As previously noted, surgery should be your last resort
• Find a good spinal specialist and get the diagnostics done
• If you haven't been through it before, it's likely the doctor will recommend epidural steroid injections and physical therapy (the latter of which is not the same as exercise) before moving to a more involved surgical solution
• IN GENERAL, if your pain is primarily in your lower back, surgery is often ineffective at relieving the symptoms.
• IN GENERAL, if you have sciatic pain and especially numbness starting in your hip and traveling down your leg to your toes, you are a good candidate for surgery and it is often very helpful in relieving symptoms

[chuckman]

Sorry you're having troubles!

Someone else addressed "laser surgery," so I'll just add a few things:

• As previously noted, surgery should be your last resort
• Find a good spinal specialist and get the diagnostics done
• If you haven't been through it before, it's likely the doctor will recommend epidural steroid injections and physical therapy (the latter of which is not the same as exercise) before moving to a more involved surgical solution
• IN GENERAL, if your pain is primarily in your lower back, surgery is often ineffective at relieving the symptoms.
• IN GENERAL, if you have sciatic pain and especially numbness starting in your hip and traveling down your leg to your toes, you are a good candidate for surgery and it is often very helpful in relieving symptoms

Regarding ESIs and NRBs. Providers can use them a couple or three different ways. Just because one has back pathology and can have surgery, a lot of surgeons don't want to cut unless they have to. So, they use injections as a bridge therapy, to kick the can of surgery as long as possible. Sometimes you can postpone surgery indefinitely. Sometimes they use injections to determine if injections will even work. Sometimes, they won't. There is no good data on this sample of the population. They can also do injections as destination therapy, if surgery would be so devastating it would cause more harm than good, if the injections can take pain from, say, a 6 to a 4, and allow one to be relatively self-sufficient in engaging in one's activities of daily living, then that's a win for some people.

[turnburglar]

I am not the OP, but am in a similar situation as the OP:

I have done years of physical therapy, acupuncture, had multiple injections including a spinal epidural, chiropractic and did I mention a ton of physical therapy? No one could ever look at me and say: "what did you expect you tub of shit?" I almost have a 6 pack, yet my ROM is so limited that I can't even do a single sit up. I am under 30. Budlges of 2mm in the L5/s1 and L4/5. Before my last epidural in january the VA did a EMG because I was complaining about sciatica. They determined that I didn't not have sciatica and that my nerve root in the L5 was being pinched. The VA claims do to my AGE they don't think I am a good candidate for surgery. My back pain is SOOOO debilitating that it has been the source of a lot of my depression.

My wife just got a new job with KILLER insurance and I just got my MRI's from the VA and will be scheduling a consult with the Laser Spine Institute. I'll come back to this thread and report if I have a good bad experience with them.

[Averageman]

I am not the OP, but am in a similar situation as the OP:

I have done years of physical therapy, acupuncture, had multiple injections including a spinal epidural, chiropractic and did I mention a ton of physical therapy? No one could ever look at me and say: "what did you expect you tub of shit?" I almost have a 6 pack, yet my ROM is so limited that I can't even do a single sit up. I am under 30. Budlges of 2mm in the L5/s1 and L4/5. Before my last epidural in january the VA did a EMG because I was complaining about sciatica. They determined that I didn't not have sciatica and that my nerve root in the L5 was being pinched. The VA claims do to my AGE they don't think I am a good candidate for surgery. My back pain is SOOOO debilitating that it has been the source of a lot of my depression.

My wife just got a new job with KILLER insurance and I just got my MRI's from the VA and will be scheduling a consult with the Laser Spine Institute. I'll come back to this thread and report if I have a good bad experience with them.

I work with Active Duty Military every day. The number of hard charging young men I come in contact with who have these same issues with their backs is what I as a layman would call epidemic.
Some of you would be amazed at how these issues combined with treatment and the necessary pain meds effect families and marriages.
Telling a 24 year old Corporal to hang tough, it will get better is wearing thin. This stuff is hard not only on the Soldier, but on Families.
A lot of these guys will never be the same. Just makes me sad.

[JoshNC]

Be very wary of corporate medical/surgical practices that promise results not promised by academic institutions. Go see a spine surgeon at an academic center or a private practice that is truly a center of excellence. Most commonly the latter will be a large group which has an accredited fellowship program (i.e. their surgeons are training the future generations of spine surgeons). I would start at whatever top academic center is in your area. Do some research re: the surgeons. Consult with the surgeon of your choice. Ask the surgeon about laser spine surgery and I'll bet you he/she has nothing good to say about laser spine surgery.

[Hmac]

Ask the surgeon about laser spine surgery and I'll bet you he/she has nothing good to say about laser spine surgery.

I'll bet they laugh. The whole "laser" thing is kind of a standing joke since the very early days of laparoscopic surgery.

[horseman234]

Steve Kerr warns to be very wary of back surgery, and says "rehab, rehab, rehab"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#174f9b547ec0

I have a lifelong friend in Little Rock who is an interventional radiologist that has been researching stem cells for a number of years and has helped people avoid surgery using stem cells, PRP, and other methods that I can't recall the names of. (I am not a medical professional.) If you have an MRI done, get a copy and I will send you his email address. I'm sure he would look at it for you, and might be able to recommend someone close to you if one of these treatments might help. I do know from speaking with him, that these treatments are not instantaneous, and do require you doing your part as to rehab. Also, don't expect to feel like you're 20 again as you are still dealing with an aging body.

[chuckman]

I am not the OP, but am in a similar situation as the OP:

I have done years of physical therapy, acupuncture, had multiple injections including a spinal epidural, chiropractic and did I mention a ton of physical therapy? No one could ever look at me and say: "what did you expect you tub of shit?" I almost have a 6 pack, yet my ROM is so limited that I can't even do a single sit up. I am under 30. Budlges of 2mm in the L5/s1 and L4/5. Before my last epidural in january the VA did a EMG because I was complaining about sciatica. They determined that I didn't not have sciatica and that my nerve root in the L5 was being pinched. The VA claims do to my AGE they don't think I am a good candidate for surgery. My back pain is SOOOO debilitating that it has been the source of a lot of my depression.

My wife just got a new job with KILLER insurance and I just got my MRI's from the VA and will be scheduling a consult with the Laser Spine Institute. I'll come back to this thread and report if I have a good bad experience with them.

L5 stenosis (or any other impingement) is what causes the sciatica. Sciatica is a very broad term liberally applied.

I hope you find a therapy that works.

[WillBrink]

Steve Kerr warns to be very wary of back surgery, and says "rehab, rehab, rehab"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#174f9b547ec0

I have a lifelong friend in Little Rock who is an interventional radiologist that has been researching stem cells for a number of years and has helped people avoid surgery using stem cells, PRP, and other methods that I can't recall the names of. (I am not a medical professional.) If you have an MRI done, get a copy and I will send you his email address. I'm sure he would look at it for you, and might be able to recommend someone close to you if one of these treatments might help. I do know from speaking with him, that these treatments are not instantaneous, and do require you doing your part as to rehab. Also, don't expect to feel like you're 20 again as you are still dealing with an aging body.

Stem cells partially reversed paralysis in a young man with SCI:

http://thepowerofideas.ideapod.com/f...ted-stem-cells

[Hmac]

Stem cell injection for disc degeneration and low back pain is highly, HIGHLY experimental. The only thing that studies tell us so far is that it warrants more investigation.