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Thread: Realistic AR home defense scenarios--things to think about

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    Not speaking as an SME by any means, but my house is a "split" floor plan. The master bedroom is on the opposite end of the house from the kids' bedrooms. Hence, I don't want to alert the perp to my presence lest he be close enough to the kids' rooms to potentially take hostages if he knows I'm looking for him. To my mind the element of surprise is worth a lot more than "scaring away" the perp (who may not be easily scared away if he was brave enough to invade a potentially occupied house in the first place). I'm not looking to pop somebody, but I figure anyone who would break into our house in the middle of the night prolly ain't afraid o' too much.

    Hunkering down and calling 911 just isn't an option. The action will be over LONG before the sheriff could possibly get an officer out to this extremely rural area.
    Your reply makes sense in the context of a rural dwelling with your particular layout. The problem is, I didn't really get that sense from your original post, which had a strong emphasis on stealth without any caveats; might be worth stipulating that in your original post. After all, the vast majority of Americans live in urban environments, not rural.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Your reply makes sense in the context of a rural dwelling with your particular layout. The problem is, I didn't really get that sense from your original post, which had a strong emphasis on stealth without any caveats; might be worth stipulating that in your original post. After all, the vast majority of Americans live in urban environments, not rural.
    Well, I was trying to make things more generic and not emphasize my own personal situation. I still think "calling 911" is about useless other than following the law.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    Well, I was trying to make things more generic and not emphasize my own personal situation. I still think "calling 911" is about useless other than following the law.
    The stealth aspect might play a bigger role if you wake up, and aren't sure if there is an intruder, but if there's a known breach of the house, then I would disagree with your emphasis on stealth. Yes, a night-time intruder(s) potentially is more willing to fight, but there's also a higher probability of them simply being altered. If you have no children, or if your rooms are in the same area of the house, why not simply run your white light constant on (whether that be using your WML or simply turning on the house lights), and hold the hallway/staircase/door, while waiting for an LE response (which can be done even without a reasonable response time)? If you're separate from your children, I don't really see too much of an issue for overt push toward them; it's unlikely that the intruders know the layout of your house well-enough to even consider hostage taking. And really, the stealth aspect is basically gone if you have a home alarm system that gets tripped. I've heard several instructors speak about home defense, and IIRC, all of them recommended an overt presence with a reliance on an LE response to finish things up as a good general response, with stealth being applicable in much more limited scenarios.

    Not saying that knowing all the things you mentioned in the original post is a bad idea, just the way your post was structured made it seem it was more important to figure out how to silently chamber your AR than, say, working out a exfil or relocation plan with your family in case of an intrusion.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 07-27-17 at 11:59.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    The stealth aspect might play a bigger role if you wake up, and aren't sure if there is an intruder, but if there's a known breach of the house, then I would disagree with your emphasis on stealth. Yes, a night-time intruder(s) potentially is more willing to fight, but there's also a higher probability of them simply being altered. If you have no children, or if your rooms are in the same area of the house, why not simply run your white light constant on (whether that be using your WML or simply turning on the house lights), and hold the hallway/staircase/door, while waiting for an LE response (which can be done even without a reasonable response time)? If you're separate from your children, I don't really see too much of an issue for overt push toward them; it's unlikely that the intruders know the layout of your house well-enough to even consider hostage taking. And really, the stealth aspect is basically gone if you have a home alarm system that gets tripped. I've heard several instructors speak about home defense, and IIRC, all of them recommended an overt presence with a reliance on an LE response to finish things up as a good general response, with stealth being applicable in much more limited scenarios.

    Not saying that knowing all the things you mentioned in the original post is a bad idea, just the way your post was structured made it seem like a far more important thing than, say, working out a exfil or relocation plan with your family in case of an intrusion.
    Then I hope people with more knowledge, training and experience will chime in to either agree or disagree with you.

  5. #15
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    I would be quiet as I don't want them to know where I'm at. The more time they take locating me, the more time I have to decide how to handle the situation. If I think they know where I'm at, the less time I think I have, the quicker I'm deciding to pull the trigger... plus I can hear them better to pinpoint location.

    Everyone's situation is different, just sharing my perspective.
    As for chambering a round, if they think someone has a gun, I would imagine they will be more aggressive. If they think your asleep, or cowering in fear, they may be more relaxed, again, more time for me... potentially.

  6. #16
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    The issue I have with these discussions, and no I'm not picking on you OP, is that as has been stated everyone's situation is different, also, we can discuss all kinds of potential issues but they really only cover the tip of what might occur. We also are kind of assuming that any sort of situation will end with the use of force. Having been in six situations in civie life where I've either drawn down on someone, broke retention, made an overt movement for my own personal weapon, or had a fellow friend do so, not one was in a situation where I thought I'd have been prior to that. Thankfully reaction and/or show of force either deescalated the situation, or caused the would be attackers to flee. These were both at home and outside of the home for FYI. First, while everyone talks about it being important to having a gun, I'd say the most important thing is being aware of your surroundings and knowing when things could become bad, second, having some kind of training, then have a gun, or weapon. Shit can happen anywhere as well, so always be of that mindset. This is something I recently, as in TODAY, drilled into my GF while going out, she was asking why I needed my glock when we were only stopping at her family's house and the gas station. My response, "You never know." She made the comment, "What think someone is going to try something at the gas station?" My response, "Been in there incidents where that happened personally. And they weren't even in bad areas of town, and one was in broad daylight." I got no further shit for carrying my glock.

    As far as noise, or making noise, to again muddy the waters. The hunker down, call 911, and wait thing. What if the guy, or guys hear you, and light a fire to try to burn you out, or if you are in a ranch with all windows on one floor try to come around and hit you through the windows with their own firearms should they have them. While this may not be "rational" we don't know if we are dealing with rational enemies here. Again, everyone's housing is different, everyone has to make their own calls as to what they want to do, me personally for my dedicated HD rifle I have been kicking around a Redi mag since I'm not throwing on a battle belt or chest rig rolling out of bed, and I might not have time to toss on the PC. Extra mags are damn hard to get to stay in underwear, if you even have any on and my ass cheeks don't clench that tightly. Also every situation is different as well, so you kind of have to have ideas of what could happen and roll with what does happen. Does the sound of someone trying to force the door open but being sloppy about it get the same response of someone who just took your front door off the hinges and is screaming get on the ground? Here's a really good question, how do you react to someone kicking in your door at zero dark thirty screaming "Police get on the ground?" Do you comply or do you resist? Again every situation is different. I'm not sure anyone has THE RIGHT answer, but I'd say a number here have right answers on that.

    As far as the threat being armed.... I don't know all state laws, but most places I know of it doesn't matter if they actually have a weapon, it is the perception of a weapon. At least every place that I have lived in. Guy tells you that he is going to "**** you up!" after being verbally or even physically aggressive, made no motion to show that he is not serious and reaches behind his back, I'm drawing down on the guy at that point, if he quickly draws from behind his back anything that even passingly looks like a weapon I'm shooting. Knowledge, training, experience, and perception under the circumstances I don't think he is going to hand me a business card or a fist full of flowers and any reasonable person in that situation would likely make the same assumption that he is a threat. Again though, there is no cut and dry situations, but the perception of a threat rule has gone all the way to the USSC so there is something that you can point to for defense. On top of that, if you are being attacked, a fist or foot can kill just as easily as a bullet, so who is to say the guy who is ground and pounding is not a threat and should not be treated as such. As much as it pains me to use the example, the Zimmerman case. Also, size differences, I'm over six foot, good shape, not an easy target, but if you are a female, I'll use a friend of mine, who is 5'1'', 109, petite, if someone my size were to attack her even unarmed I'd expect her to use lethal force to stop it. And she is a better shot than most men, I mean I'd trust her at my six, she is, pound for pound, in better shape than me, or most men for matter, but I've taught her a fair bit of defensive tactics, if I put hands on her she is screwed simply because I am significantly stronger than she is and can literally pick her up and throw her if I chose to, and my size ans strength, and honestly pain tolerance even trying some of these fancy joint locks I've seen some places trying to teach girls to fight attackers she doesn't have the size to gain enough leverage. Again, if she is attacked, she knows enough that she is going right to lethal because of the threat.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

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  7. #17
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    Devised by a real world face shooter. This is probably the most effective and comprehensive home defense strategy Ive ever seen.

    https://primaryandsecondary.com/foru...-strategy.770/

  8. #18
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    Lets say your targeted by four guys and a driver/lookout.

    They do just a little surveillance. Like drive by, learn the cars, the general area, if you have a dog, and where the master bedroom is. (often the last place with lights on at night)

    They decide to attack as you sleep. (instead of say, while your transitioning from work to car or car to home, etc)

    When they think your asleep they drive up and go to the door they want to enter (and have a back up entry plan) Preferably something glass, or perhaps they go though two entrances at once. How much time will there be from the first alarm (security system, your ears, your dogs ears, etc) to when you can observe, orient, and act? (Grab a weapon) They might even be entering the master bedroom itself from outside though a window, french door, or an opening just adjacent. How much time will take them to get to you if your the primary target? 3 seconds? 20 seconds? if they attack your master bedroom it's closer to zero seconds.

    It's not much time. Given this scenario, such a crew would have at least some long guns and very possibly armor. What are your odds? Not good. It's just the reality of such an attack.

    Just something to keep in mind. This plan only requires a BG with an average IQ and no training to consider.

    If it is the local SWAT team with the wrong house they should be good enough to take your place and have you in cuffs literally before you know it. If not, they suck, and will likely get hurt or killed while the home owner is also killed. That's just how that usually goes. (I sure as hell wouldn't throw my hands up just because someone with a gun and a flash light in my house yells, "police!")

    How would you attack your home with a few guys? How about someone you know? Think about it and see what you come up with.
    Last edited by Ron3; 08-05-17 at 22:00.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Devised by a real world face shooter. This is probably the most effective and comprehensive home defense strategy Ive ever seen.

    https://primaryandsecondary.com/foru...-strategy.770/
    What does he do with those weapons when he is not at home? 'Need some milk, damn, got to put the guns away.'

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    What does he do with those weapons when he is not at home? 'Need some milk, damn, got to put the guns away.'
    My sentiments exactly. Let me go collect, unload/make safe, store, lock, and then do what I have to do 30+ minutes later.

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