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Thread: Ruger gets serious about the AR market?

  1. #31
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    I suspect this is too little, too late from Ruger.

    They've been sitting on their arse for quite a while. The market is near bottomed out right now. Not sure if this will boost sales much, if any.
    Proper Planing Prevents Piss Poor Performance.......

  2. #32
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    Piston market, which is where Ruger did quite well IMO, is really dried up. I guess they're trying to keep the receiver tooling in place?

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    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Piston market, which is where Ruger did quite well IMO, is really dried up. I guess they're trying to keep the receiver tooling in place?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    I know everyone / everywhere is different but between mcx and mpx i sell probably 8-10 a week and lwrc is 1 or 2.

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    i had the will power to not buy guns. I even bought a gun store and work for a company that manufactures the forging machines for said guns. I need help.

  4. #34
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    I don't believe it's a quality control issue at all. Many mfgrs have simply decided it's OK to make them poorly. It's not that they're not catching mistakes, they know they're making them this way.

    Guns that fire when they're not supposed to. Guns that don't fire when there's incoming fire. Guns that come out of the box with missing parts or loose parts or parts installed wrong. It's all real and it is-- to use the same word again, to avoid sounding too caustic-- disappointing.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalFun View Post
    I know everyone / everywhere is different but between mcx and mpx i sell probably 8-10 a week and lwrc is 1 or 2.

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    Not to derail the thread, but genuinely curious here. Is there much of a price difference between the SIG and LWRC? Also, and I hate to sound mean, I wonder how many go after the SIG because it "newer" or because of more advertising and market presence online over LWRC these days. Not taking away from your sales, just thoughts and possible causes and the fact every region is different and has their set of quirks.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but genuinely curious here. Is there much of a price difference between the SIG and LWRC? Also, and I hate to sound mean, I wonder how many go after the SIG because it "newer" or because of more advertising and market presence online over LWRC these days. Not taking away from your sales, just thoughts and possible causes and the fact every region is different and has their set of quirks.
    The lwrc is about 600 more than a standard mcx. Sometimes sig gives us deals where you give a red dot and a sling with the rifles. Lwrc tell us what to sell things for usually....but recently they send us their di rifle to sell for 999 because they had a bunch of them

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    i had the will power to not buy guns. I even bought a gun store and work for a company that manufactures the forging machines for said guns. I need help.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalFun View Post
    The lwrc is about 600 more than a standard mcx. Sometimes sig gives us deals where you give a red dot and a sling with the rifles. Lwrc tell us what to sell things for usually....but recently they send us their di rifle to sell for 999 because they had a bunch of them

    Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
    I'd bet the price drives at least a good portion. As does the extra swag. Lots of buyers are cheap and a few doodad sways them over something that might be better. That said, I have no stake in the game, I'm pretty much a BCM man these days when it comes to ARs.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

    "Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent

    "Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen View Post
    This is not about any particular brand, it's just in general about one segment of the industry.

    Taper pins instead of straight pins: no cost, we're doing it anyway. But-- let's say somehow it costs another $.50 / gun

    Correct chamber. No cost... just use the right reamer. Let's go nuts and say it takes our engineer 3 months at $88K / year to figure it all out and get the right dimensions and talk to the barrel maker / department. That's $22K, reamer no cost as we were gonna buy them anyway. Amortize over, I dunno, two years' production, lets just say it's 22,000 guns total. Cost / gun: $1.00

    Stake the friggin' carrier key screws. We're doing it anyway, let's just make a radical change here and do it right. No cost but let's say the staker operator drops a box of carriers on a foot and it somehow costs the company $.50 / gun.

    There's your couple bucks a gun. Sheisse, let's double it and really get paid for doing it right, we'll charge another $4.00 / gun! That and the money saved on warranty, and the increased sales realized when folks get the message we're serious about making good guns.... who would not pay another $4.00 / gun for one that doesn't suffer from these chronic problems?

    That ought to work, but I'm far from being a sales guru. Spend another $2.00 / gun? What I sometimes see seems to indicate that some of them won't spend another $.17 / gun to make sure it's safe, reliable, and durable. It's so blatant sometimes that I just don't know what to think. They don't know? They continue to not know these things, year after year, decade after decade? I'd like to think that because the alternative is, they know.... and they care more about the $.17.

    I recently learned of an incident where the good guy was nearly killed / crippled / lost limbs, possibly due to a known problem in a certain firearm design (there's no proving of course that he would not have been shot if the gun had worked right). There are no doubt a great many more involving many other firearm types that "just jammed" at the worst time.... when it was really due to "we saved $.17 / gun, dang man, that's $1700 a year, you know?". It's a bunch of crap and the industry should by God be held to a higher standard.
    One of the problems as I see it is the change in corporate structure from either family-owned or traditional corporate owned, as DuPont owned Remington, to ownership by investment groups.

    As an example, at one time Remington focused on making each buyer of an 870, and their families by extension, lifelong Remington customers because of the durability and dependability of their products. This approach provided a relatively steady sales stream over time. That focus quickly changed to corner cutting in order to maximize profit after Remington began it's life as a pawn of various investment entities.

    From taking numerous armorer courses over several decades from career employees of several manufacturers, I heard firsthand how these changes impacted the relationship between labor and management and thus impacted quality.

    I once heard that the average AR buyer shoots a hundred rounds or so the first month they own their AR, then less than a hundred rounds a year going forward. That, my friends, is who the general AR manufacturer is building their rifles for.

    Looking at it from that perspective it isn't hard to understand why some folks use straight versus tapered pins on FSB's, why gas blocks are set screwed rather than pinned, why staking is not emphasized more, and so on.

    Most of the members on this site probably shoot more in a month than most users shoot in a year. This means we, as a group, are more likely to encounter and recognize problems with our firearms that others don't. And those issues are more aggravating to us than to other users.

    They continue to not know these things, year after year, decade after decade? I'd like to think that because the alternative is, they know.... and they care more about the $.17.

    The ongoing debacle with the Sig P320 is ample evidence that some manufacturers do care more about the $.17.

    JM devalued .02 worth.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 09-15-17 at 00:09.

  9. #39
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    What's so frustrating, and this is not at all limited to the firearms industry, so often you see things made wrong that actually took extra effort to do.

    The firearms industry is far from the worst; I'd say the automotive industry is the most effective at squeezing pennies out of quality and into profit. The only consideration they have for the end user is what is reported in the news and enforced by regulations, IMO.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Ned,

    Your points make sense and are hard to argue with. Especially in Ruger's case where they're making many of their own parts. It might be slightly different if they were buying carriers or barrels from another vendor.

    Unfortunately it seems that many of the companies involved in making/selling firearms have almost given up on quality control. I guess it must be cheaper to skip a good going over and just ship guns out knowing that most won't see much use. Fix the one in one thousand that actually gets shot enough to reveal a problem and not worry about the rest?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    I agree. Normalcy bias has become that you buy a gun expecting it to be perfect right out of the box. The days of buying a milsurp 1911 and having to have work done to it right off the bat are GONE. Thank God. In the age of the internet where griping is just a few clicks away your friggin' product better be able to BOOGIE, Baby!

    Allowing these little things that have to be fixed also encourages makers to become lazy. They know most people who buy a certain type of gun will probably never fire it, so the few guns that get sent back are simply absorbed into the cost of making the product.

    Once again: I'm not picking on Ruger. I happen to LOVE their wheel guns.

    I'm just wanting to see a "judgment day" come as far as reigning in poorly-made or cheaply designed firearms that are produced because the makers know they can get away with it.
    Last edited by Doc Safari; 09-15-17 at 10:25.

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