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Thread: Flinching with both pistol and rifle

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndmiller View Post
    Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.
    There is merit to this. I attended an instructor meeting where we discussed this very thing. After about 150 rounds, a new shooter who is having difficulty grasping a concept is wasting ammunition and should step away for a while. If it is a condition of employment that they continue to train, then do something else to mix things up.
    Train 2 Win

  2. #22
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    I'm an experienced shooter and can feel when I've had enough. Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally. This obviously doesn't apply in all shooting scenarios. But I definitely know when it is time to stop regardless of the reason.

    I think I became more in tune with it shooting full house .44 Magnum for an extended time. There is only so much of that you can do in one session, regardless of experience. That said, I could probably pop off 556 rounds or 22 LR all day long and not be materially affected, unless shooting for precision through a scope for tiny groups.
    Last edited by HKGuns; 01-04-22 at 15:11.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKGuns View Post
    Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally.
    This is SO true. After 3 rounds of a precision group I start losing it. 5 rounds is max. Some guys will say that 10 rounds are needed to get a real accuracy measurement. No way I can do that.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndmiller View Post
    Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1

    If you want to make a new shooter hate shooting, ignore the above.

    Switch to something else less taxing, take a food break or whatever.

    I've watched people get frustrated with their kids at this point and start yelling at them about their mistakes.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  5. #25
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    Here's what I do with new shooters...

    I go over safety protocols etc... then I start by moving them right up to the target which is against a back stop so they can't miss. Like 5 ft away. I give them the pistol and tell them to dump the whole mag, as fast as they can, into the target, all while focusing on tracking the front sight. We are pushing for speed... no regard to accuracy. We do that 3 or 4 times and then move back for slow shots. It's not 100%, but it works most of the time.

    My theory as to why it works: you're shooting so fast that you don't have time to keep flinching, so you break the habit through volume. And after 4 mags of tracking the bobbing front sight you adjust to the shock and impulse of the whole thing. The surprise is gone.

    Try it. See if it works for you. Think like you're trying to control a machine gun. You can't keep blinking.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullz View Post
    Here's what I do with new shooters...

    I go over safety protocols etc... then I start by moving them right up to the target which is against a back stop so they can't miss. Like 5 ft away. I give them the pistol and tell them to dump the whole mag, as fast as they can, into the target, all while focusing on tracking the front sight. We are pushing for speed... no regard to accuracy. We do that 3 or 4 times and then move back for slow shots. It's not 100%, but it works most of the time.

    My theory as to why it works: you're shooting so fast that you don't have time to keep flinching, so you break the habit through volume. And after 4 mags of tracking the bobbing front sight you adjust to the shock and impulse of the whole thing. The surprise is gone.

    Try it. See if it works for you. Think like you're trying to control a machine gun. You can't keep blinking.
    I like this, and might try it. My GF has shot a bit and knows what to do, and dry-fires well, but has been struggling with anticipation in live fire.

  7. #27
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    The key is to make sure the person shooting is actually shooting faster than they can blink/flinch while still trying to track something (Like the font sight). It doesn't matter if they can actually track it or not. It forces them to drive the gun with their eyes open. If they're shooting fast enough for this to work AND they're still flinching, they'll basically be shooting with their eyes closed, which will be pretty obvious. Just know that this usually takes several mags to break the habit - which always causes me a little heartburn seeing the money vaporize like that.

    Again, for anyone trying this, make sure you set up the student with an appropriate back stop so that missing isn't going to cause errant shots to fly off somewhere dangerous. I don't think this can be done at your typical indoor range. You need some place with pistol pits or a place where you can walk them right up to the backstop.

    This drill also fixes another problem I see with new shooters, which is almost as bad as the flinch: They take a shot, and then look to see where it went - EVERY TIME. This tends to show up as they progress through their learning. Which isn't a problem for sighting in a gun or checking the accuracy of the aiming system. However, they should be training in such a way that they know where the bullet should be every time the shot breaks. Once again, this drill breaks the habit of "pause and check." In this case, I have them shoot as fast as they think they can control it. Once the sights are aligned, pull the trigger. Repeat until empty. We check the target afterwards.

    The slow fire drills & dry fire drills are great for working on trigger control and technique, but they all leave a pause after the shot breaks for someone to take their eyes away from what they're doing... which just seems to promote the flinch rather than solve it. What I've found works with the slow fire drills to help with flinching is to instruct the shooter to track the movement of the front sight against whatever they're aiming at. Explain that the goal is to visually see how much the sight moves off its plane every time the trigger is fully depressed - again tracking seems to force them to drive the gun. But it can be tough to work through it because even the "click" sound can be enough to make some people flinch.

    - Just a few things to try that I've found work well. I'm not a professional instructor or anything like that, but I'll take the opportunity to take new shooters out whenever they ask (which seems to be happening more and more in my community). This rapid fire drill is literally the first thing I have them do because 1) it confronts whatever mechanical fears they have about guns head on, and 2) it give them immediate experience and perspective on running the gun properly once they develop the appropriate skills. Ultimately, I want any shooter to be able to present with controlled and rapid engagement, and this exercise lets them "feel" what they will be working towards.

    I don't explain any of that to them, by the way. It's just, "Hey, we're going to start with this exercise so you can get the feel for how it all works and then we'll go do some slow, controlled fire to get you hitting the target."

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